What makes you so sure the moderators are the problem, and not users? Maybe assholes gravitate toward certain instances, or people just don't bother to check whether an instance's rules match how tend to they post.

its so funny how people complained about blahaj, the trans instance yet they dont ban very high at all, i suspect its alot of transphobic comments being directed towards the instance that are getting people banned.

blahaj is up there likely due to signicant transphobia too.

dbzer0 literally has a community aimed at calling out power tripping mods, and instance admins regularly comment there to call out power tripping mods.

I've never have been worried by being banned there by just normal posting.

As they have already told you. This does not take into account the amount of harassment that some instances and communities have to endure.

I don't really see a problem with an instance banning large numbers of users.

The ability to make exclusive spaces is part of the fediverse's design. Suppose a queer space kept getting flooded with homophobic users, or a Muslim space got a bunch of people shitting on their religion, or something like that. Naturally, such spaces would have a higher number of bans. That doesn't necessarily show an "echo chamber" especially since users of such communities may be federated with other communities. People complain about censorship on .ml creating an "echo chamber" but half the time I'm arguing or discussing things on other turfs like .world.

The idea that those sorts of enclaves or exclusive spaces shouldn't exist, as is implied with the framing here, is to impose what us evil, dastardly "authoritarians" sometimes call "the tyranny of structurelessness." No one would have a space to discuss things outside of the most prominent, hegemonic view, which would more easily sideline and overwhelm other perspectives.

As an example, I once frequented an utter cesspool on Reddit called r/CapitalismVSocialism, which was created and promoted by An-caps and where that perspective was prominent (though not exclusive). I found it was virtually impossible to have a discussion with anyone about anything, because even if you weren't talking to an An-cap, they were always there waiting to latch on to some turn of phrase and use it against you, and everyone was too preoccupied with countering their nonsense to reach any kind of high-level discussion. I eventually got fed up with that and found that my beliefs were more challenged by going to explicitly leftist spaces because we had shared assumptions and were speaking the same language, and didn't feel the need to be as defensive. I was never going to be convinced of anything by the An-caps and all talking to them accomplished was pissing me off.

The fediverse's design is actually quite brilliant, because you can have a space to discuss things substantively among like-minded people while at the same time interacting with other groups.

I'm not even a real instance anymore, how did I make the list 😆

But also, you should see the local numbers haha

lemmy=# select count(distinct other_person_id) from mod_ban where mod_person_id in (1, 2,288);
 count 
-------
  9792
(1 row)

I wonder what happens when I hit 10,000?

After hearing for years about how Blahaj is the worst and you will get banned for anything and everything because the mods are so hypersensitive: lol. lmao.

I have no idea about pawb.social, but it's almost certainly heavily bloated by bans for downvoting on AI communities on dbzer0 (and maybe some other communities).

I also imagine places like lemmy.world are distorted due to them receiving the lions share of new communities, many of which end up abandoned - whereas smaller, more 'community' instances are stricter and will delete troll/spam/abandoned communities.

What happens if we do a ratio of bans vs number of users?

We get a graph that compares two unrelated values?

Unless this data is purely internal instance user bannings, 'Per capita' has no effective meaning. As the pawb.social case shows: it's all one user with multiple communities who regularly bans waves of sockpuppet brigades. Even the people catching strays or otherwise goes to show it has nothing to do with 'the furries'.

Likewise I wager the SJW bans are effectively one community banning essentially one user who periodically spams accounts.

What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners?

That whole painfully public fued against db0 over their stance on zionism may have something to do with it. Like the fake neo-nazi shit being spread against db0 that was just going on this week. It's a wild question to have in light of all that, quite frankly.

Well it makes complete sense. ML, dbzero and the furries are instances that committed to upholding their code of conducts which moderates and bans people for antisocial behaviors like transphobia and racism for example, while instances like world and sjw are known to rarely if ever ban or moderate people for things like that to the point instances like beehaw had to defederate from them so they wouldnt get swarn by their unmoderated users

I don't think this is terribly meaningful. Do you take into account unmoderated communities? Some communities and mods are also more ban happy than others, so one instance can have communities that very rarely ban and ones that ban a lot, and how big those communities are will also vary.

A more meaningful analysis would try to measure the impact of ban-happy communities by adjusting for their size/activity or would compare individual communities.

Edit: Some communities or mods also get harassed a lot and therefore need to be more ban happy (like womens stuff), but I don't think accounting for that would be within the scope of what you're looking at, but it's worth being aware of.

Dbzero do not tolerate zionism and zionism apologia

I just had my first reprimand and banning from a community for the first time in the 3 or so years I’ve been on Lemmy.

I don’t regret it.

I had no idea that Lemmy.ml believed the Uhygur genocide was a hoax. I decided to block all of Lemmy.ml as a result.

I feel like this makes sense for very politically focused spaces, especially for less "mainstream" ideas like db0's anarchist communities, just cause not every community will allow arguments about their stance, and even ones that do will see more arguments turn into flame wars and incivility than communities for which there simply isnt as much for heated arguments to start over, especially when the arguments arent always something "new" to that space and might just be someone from outside noticing and saying "your ideology is bad because [insert reason that community has probably heard enough before to be tired of]".

Am a bit curious about why pawb is so high though, Ive not really noticed much of the hate that furries sometimes would get on other platforms (I guess it could be because theyre all banned but I doubt it, because that wouldnt hide it from communities outside of pawb). The instance administration has always felt rather reasonable whenever Ive seen like instance announcements or defederation decisions or such too, at least by my standards. Itd be interesting maybe to see what communities these bans tend to come from and what reasons are given, just looking through the modlog doesnt seem to help much there given that it doesnt seem to let one sort by instance.

Alternative view: Why is dbzer0 the only instance that holds people accountable for their actions? Why are all other instances letting things slide?

Here's an explanation of the pawb.social numbers:

Interesting that you chose ban when your favorite move is to just delete users you don't like from the database on piefed.social and won't show up in this dataset. Of course, you won't see this reply because of that.

We have dedicated anti ai trolls who go and get banned from dozen of genai comms, make alts then go and get banned again. We have serial harassers who make dozen of accounts and go and spew bigotry. Your methodology is so flawed, it's laughable. Did you even check the age of the accounts being banned?The amount of comments? The amount of downvotes? Cross-reference with other instance bans? Check if their own instance banned them? Did you have any amount of rigor before throwing out your half-assed conclusions?

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics...

Is this permanent bans and/or temporary bans?

Ah, time for some drama entertainment. I already grabbed the popcorn and some drinks.

This is a pretty disappointing post Rimu. It appears very out of character from your usual content and feels like a bit of a hit piece.

Also why post it to !fediverse@lemmy.world when you have !fediverse@piefed.social?

the decision to graph per-community (i'll call those "commag"s) doesn't make sense to me. it seems to me like a bad approximation for lifetime total users that doesn't control for either instance attitudes on commag creation or troll account registration (these usually don't create communities). i'm unacquainted with pawb but i wouldn't think they're very ban-happy, and the fact that these graphs show them as twice as ban-happy per-community as, and a bit more ban happy than ml should tell you this isn't very good methodology.

it seems more like dbzer0 and pawb don't create many communities (but don't close stale ones either, unlike .world), which makes sense as the ones that do exist are quite focused and targetted to the instance userbase.

i expected blahaj.zone to have more bans since as far as i know its supposed to be a safe place and less tolerant of transphobia (along with there being no downvotes to bury hateful comments and posts)

Hi Rimu,

I see you’ve banned one of the communities I moderate !europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com, deleting it entirely from your instance and denying access to members who had subscribed from there.

Two questions if you don’t mind. Why are you so ban happy? Was there something wrong with the community or was this based on your personal feelings of a particular user?

Me, scrolling through the comments:

I don't know why but the way this post was written made me read it in Tim Pool's voice. Guess I gotta lay off majority report videos for a while now. Glad to see push back and acknowledgement in the comments that this data is irrelevant. It's neat, but way too many factors and stretching of meanings which makes this a worthless analysis (with a very blatant bias in the reporting).

While it's fair to note that this is a pretty raw assessment of the data and could potentially be skewed by any number of variables that aren't being accounted for, it agrees with my anecdotal experience and therefore I choose to believe it.

Some servers take a more laissez faire approach and others take a more authoritarian approach, and that's fine because joining a server is a voluntary act. No one is being subjected to anything unwillingly, they are choosing an experience that works for them.

Lemmy.ml is marxist-leninist not marxist. The distinction is very important considering that the former term was created by the tyrant Stalin.

"Hey everyone, look at my juvenile attempts at statistics! Look how obviously bad some people seem when I do a shit job at it while ALSO failing to apply any context of the domain being studied to my thoughts, let alone to my 'calculations' and conclusions!"

This is a terrible metric from the fucking jump. And you did a shit job of it from there. Fuck you, truly.

[Edit: love how ya closed with "so who's weirder guyz, the marxists, the furries, or the db0s?!" Just painfully obvious how you started the whole shebang, you hate all of the groups lol, because you're a dumb asshole and not very happy about being one. Just remember, the option is always yours to simply shut the fuck up and read, then think, instead.]

Ah shit, I don't know what to make of this, but it's juicy

Wow some of y'all are pissy AF over literal data being shown to you. If you think it's wrong then you have free will, put your money where your mouth is and do it better or stop yapping.

Wow this is really interesting.

Actually this might be a great time to ask you for a feature request: lately I've been banned from SO MANY AI communities located on dbzer0, the trouble with that being that I've literally never heard of any of these, much less interacted with any of them, presumably even with a downvote.

Is this "harassment" then, to be preemptively banned from something on some other server that I had no intention of ever going to? What if someone were to create 10 communities a day and ban someone from them all? I guess that one would get noticed and shut down, but I would not put it past an AI content generator to do just this sort of thing, if it were given the ability to do so.

Anyway, perhaps those notifications could be silenced unless I've ever commented or at least voted in the community that I am being banned from? I don't need to know or care about something that I have zero interest in - these unsolicited bans are spam.

I guess you don't filter out things like dubvee or DB0 who when you get banned on an instance level you will also be banned on a tonne of communities or if you downvote one post in a community run by draconic neo they will ban you from half a dozen communities inflating their numbers.

Very interesting stuff! Defederations should count as a ban of all instance users, imo.

Analysis of potential causes aside, thank you for sharing such interesting data!

i'm interested in seeing data of only bans (preferably just sitebans, but if that's not possible all their bans would be fine) by admins. commag moderation style has a lot more leeway

I’d be curious about stats on downvoting as well. Anecdotally, downvote frequency seems to vary by community. Personally, I don’t downvote for differences of opinion, and instead withhold upvotes, with downvotes reserved for blatantly toxic behavior. The etiquette across Lemmy seems varied, though.

Did you go by total bans or only instance bans when they are admins?

Because if it was total bans, then I can think of admins of two other sites who'd be over 300

@rimu@piefed.social

Starting the y axis at 0 is the one true way.

But the funny thing is the only popular community on db0 is a place to complain about mods...

It's the "anarchist" mindset 🫣

Could you make a graph with defederations? I suspect that plays a role

Ah I remember dbzer0, he led a harassment campaign against a Lemmy instance I used to run because he didn't like some news articles I was posting.

Db0 users calling lemmy.world and feddit.org "ban happy" are gonna have an aneurysm.

So very anarchist of them policing their instances heavier than literally any other.

Yeah I can confirm, they defederated our entire instance because I think leftists should vote against Trump.

Unsurprisingly .ml is a shithole everyone thinks it is.

Why are furries so ban happy? Holy shit.