I've never been in a situation where me having a gun would have made things bettter.
6d 17h ago by piefed.social/u/miked in showerthoughts
When I'm at the range!
Damn you
Lucky you.
Please explain.
Some of us have been victims and may have a different opinion.
Also some of us have been to war or grew up in the deep woods where having a gun can save your life.
I guess technically that's being a victim too. Just that the perpetrator is more likely to be a bear than a person.
Yep being 20 feet away from a bobcat will probably make you reassert things. Also having a handgun pointed at you as well. And hearing a ricochet of a bullet right in front of you.
I’m not saying a gun helps in all those situations but it definitely changes your available options.
Bobcats are relatively ok, maybe you meant cougar (mountain lion) or wolverine? The latter is especially nasty
Been a while, coulda been a cougar just happy it announced its presence versus decided my neck looked tasty.
In most cases just the noise from a gun will be enough but a rabid raccoon might need dispatched. Also, some of are too old,or fat, to run from an animal.
And some of you may be upvoting any plausible argument for gun ownership, even in the face of overwhelming objective evidence that it makes societies vastly unsafe.
Here's the thing about guns and victimhood, access to guns causes far more victims then access to guns prevents, and it always inherently will. In that environment, a predator intent on committing a crime will always have one, and a victim only ever might have one.
If you rely on mutually assured destruction arguments, then you have armed and killing each other over road rage because humans are dumb emotional children who think they're more mature then they are.
Thanks for your hypothetical but I’m speaking from first hand experience. When you have the same type of experience and aren’t just speaking off a statistics sheet you might change your tune. Most people do.
Personally I think we need massive gun control reform. But I don’t live in that world, or a world where that’s going to happen in my lifetime even. So I’ll continue to do what’s most practical for the reality I live in.
Maybe so, but we live in a world where guns exist. Choosing to disarm oneself doesn't change that, and certain things can change the math.
There was a violent incident at a nearby house, and it took police 40 minutes to arrive because I live in the middle of nowhere, so right off the "call the police" option essentially doesn't exist for me. I also have no kids in the house. If children come over, the gun that isn't in the safe goes to the safe and the ammunition goes to the car. I am not suicidal. For me, gun ownership makes sense where it doesn't for others.
If I lived in a country where guns didn't outnumber people it may not make sense. Though with the current government I also wouldn't give mine up if they were outlawed.
Less guns there are in rotation and more screening there is when getting one effects straight how likely it is for the bad guy having a gun.
Nobody is suicidal until they are and nobody leaves the guns out for children until they do. Also guns at house escalate domestic violence cases.
So my personal solution is what? Can I un-invent firearms? Can I ensure not only that they're outlawed, but that hundreds of millions of them are magically rounded up? Should I trust US law enforcement to protect me and respect my rights?
Maybe so, but we live in a world where guns exist.
No, you live in a country that chooses to manufacture guns in response to people buying them, and you choose to actively perpetuate that by going and spending money buying guns and gun infrastructure, directly funding gun companies / their lobbies, and then by going online to try and spread that justification so that you can feel slightly less guilty about choices you've made that you know are wrong.
So we do in fact live in a world where guns exist.
Guns have caused a lot of harm. They seem evil until you need one. I was hiking solo in the wilderness once and was carrying one for wildlife and was attacked by a homeless guy. I shoved him away and pulled it out and he ran off.
The same thing happened to me but I pulled my dick out.
Thats a weird nickname for a gun.
I cant but wonder if bear spray would have had the same effect.
In my particular case nobody got hurt because he feared the gun, and I doubt a spray can would have had the same effect.
that's a risk they're willing for you to take
A girl just got killed by a mountain lion on a hike not 2 miles from me. A gun could have prevented this. I do live in the mountains so like this may not be common
People who have been in situations where having a gun would have made things better tend to not be around anymore to post about it.
The pig who shot Michal Brown said he had to shoot because Brown could have taken his piece away. If you accept that, then you agree that, at least in this situation, the public and the police would be safer without guns.
It used to be: I had to shoot him judge, he had a gun
Then it was: I had to shoot him judge, I thought he had a gun
Now it's: I had to shoot him judge, I had a gun.
Not so fun fact: Gun suicides are far more common than any other type of gun related death. Having a gun in the house is a big risk factor for suicide.
Without getting into details I believe this to true.
100% I just posted a comment about how I feel like I'm more likely to kill myself than needing a gun for defense. Not that Id generally say that I'm suicidal.
Not really, suicide is historically just under half of all gun deaths. But your point stands!
It hasn't been under half in ages. In 2023 it was 58% in the US and in some areas it's noticeably more
Haven't looked at numbers for 4-5 years, and holy shit did it flip around 2022-2023. Last I saw was 43-48%.
Anyone want to see for themselves, this is a solid search:
"cdc gun deaths"
Plenty of data from solid sources to back treesquid. Thanks for getting me up to date! I was quite ignorant.
What do you mean, "not really"? Is there a single type of gun-related death that is more common? Because OP is saying "the most common," not "the majority".
Turns out now it's also the majority
I think you missed the point. Not what percentage of gun deaths are suicides, but what percentage of suicides are gun related.
It's never one way. It's not like owning a gun is driving people to suicide. It's intersectionality that drives higher numbers.
You’re absolutely right. Owning the gun gives them the opportunity that wouldn’t exist as easily otherwise. And just for the record I’m not anti-gun.
Clearly you’ve never spent time in the desert near Ship Rock at night. Never heard the stories told by the natives and the rangers and the soldiers. Never saw twisted shapes on four legs run backwards into the brush, living rot retreating from your headlights. Never heard the desert go completely silent, not the sound of coyotes or insects or wind, while you see shadows move in the starlight. Never seen things that look like deer but aren’t run as fast as your car on highway 191, taunting you, staring at you, trying to fool you into slowing down or stopping.
Not that a gun would do much good against them, but if your car breaks down just south of the state lines near four corners, some who know the area would say shooting yourself is a better death than the alternative…
I read this three times and I'm still pretty lost as to what you're hinting at
The area I’m talking about is one that supposedly has a high concentration of skinwalkers. There are lots of creepy stories about skinwalkers across all of the nearby states, but that area near four corners is where the Navajo nation and Hopi and Ute reservations are.
Maybe it’s just mass psychosis or a pop phenomenon, but people who regularly spend time in that area from the natives to forest service to the national guardsmen running trainings out there, will warn you about traveling at night and not stopping for anything on the road especially if its an animal that looks off in some way
There's also a lot of users of "strong medicine" in that area... it can make the stories more vivid.
Can’t tell if you’re referring to the weed or the peyote, but I suppose both would likely do the trick lol
Peyote would be the strong medicine in the four corners area, weed is everywhere.
Sounds like good advice. Between the armadillos and the prairie dogs, I'm convinced that the entire "Great American Desert"* is actively trying to make us deathly ill. We joke about Australia trying to kill you, but we got our own "australia" at home.
*I'm using the term the way the stagecoach settlers did, meaning everything west of the Mississippi till the Rocky Mountains.
Gila Monsters definitely give some Australia vibes. They are kinda cute chonky reptiles even if they are venomous
Rattlesnakes are another fun venomous reptile, though they’re much more common and more likely to bite you than Gila Monsters. It’s always a bit of a scare when you’re hiking and suddenly hear a rattlesnake start warning you but you can’t even tell where it is. Like pick a lane buddy, either camouflage/hide yourself or try to tell me where you are so I can avoid accidentally stepping on you, don’t try to do both at the same time lol
Of course in the reptile cases, the animals rarely bite unless you’re actively antagonizing them, but still a bit scary to have
We’ve also got scorpions everywhere out west. If you ever come out to the Rocky Mountains or the deserts around them, bring a black light flash light out at night. You’ll be able to find a ton of the fluorescent green critters crawling around in the sagebrush. They only get about 3cm long, but they are “the most venomous scorpion in North America” haha I’ve never been stung and Ive caught several before, but the venom can cause full limb paralysis, can feel like “lightning” even a while after the initial sting, and there are a reported deaths from it
And we’ve actually got a ton of different stinging/biting wasps and bees and creepy vibrant colored things like mud daubers. Oh and those Velvet Ants which are nicknamed “cowkillers” because they’re bite is painful enough to kill a cow (it isn’t really of course)
Definitely not as much diversity as Australia, and most things here will leave you alone if you leave them alone, but there are plenty of things that will, at the very least, ruin your day if you’re not careful
especially if its an animal that looks off in some way
Probably just some animals with mange like how everyone thought chupacabras were real until they found the weird looking mangy coyotes that were the actual chupacabras.
Don't fall to superstition just because you don't understand something.
It’s a joke post mate; I don’t believe in magic or skinwalkers. It’s just fun to hear the stories
I'm guessing it's related to the Navajo skinwalker legends.
Scared of Chupacabras or something like that is my guess.
Americans are always living in fear of something, so why not that I guess.
Hey now chupacabras are much farther south and they’re actually aliens don’t you know /s
Anyway you telling me there’re no creepy stories from some cryptid or other where you live? What a shame. What stories do you tell on camping trips?
Also if you’re Canadian like your instance suggests, the First Nations people have their own it-goes-on-four-legs, and I’m wiling to bet the stories of wendigo are just as creepy as those for skinwalkers.
I don't really believe the stories and you don’t have to either, but don’t go saying it’s “Americans” as if you don’t belong to that same continent with similar myths and legends. The native people of “turtle island” didn’t have the same borders we do today and neither did their stories and mythos
Just a cool creepy pasta
It’s not but you can make it one lol
I figured it was some Hunter Thompson thing (Fear and Loathing or etc)
Edit: also it doesn't look like copypasta to me.
Alright, well, I don't believe in ghost stories.
Might not be ghost stories. Prairie dogs carry the plague, and armadillos carry leprosy, and tons of critters carry rabies. Sure the symptoms got exaggerated, but that shit will kill you either way.
Rabid animals, though far more rare than most think, are why I'm always armed in the boondocks. I know, you shouldn't splatter their blood, but if it's me or them...
I think it's indeed fair to say that the vast, vast majority of people have never spent time near Ship Rock at night.
Not that a gun would do much good against them
So even that is not an argument for guns?
You purposefully omitted the last sentence specifying a gun gives you the option of a quicker death.
And I guess I’m overselling the walkers/witches/spirits a little bit. Most rangers and soldiers think guns are useful at least as deterrents if not fatal weapons. In fact usually the stories end with something along the lines of “and that’s why I keep a loaded shotgun within arms reach when I’m driving there” or something similar lol
But technically, yes, you’re right, guns are not necessarily vital.
The Navajo and Hopi and Utes and others have supposedly been defending themselves against these for much longer than guns have been in the Americas and possibly since before guns were even invented. However, afaik most strong good magic in their traditions is drawn from community. So if you’re a lone traveler who has neither a tribe that can help protect you (physically or magically) nor personal cultural knowledge of these evils, I’d argue a gun is probably the best substitute you’ve gonna get.
(Of course, just not traveling in skinwalker country at night alone in the first place would likely be the most effective method of survival lol)
I'm just saying that your comment started out superficially looking like an argument justifying guns in some situations, and then turned out not even being that.
I have no doubt that there are situations that would justify carrying a gun, but "you will need to shoot yourself" is not it.
And of course most people would simply prefer to avoid dangerous situations like that, or prefer the danger to be addressed in a more systemic way, if necessary. But not all danger needs to be made safe. Nature in particular just needs to be left alone sometimes.
Sheesh, should've known better than to try and make a joke around here, I guess. I appreciated it, at least. I've got a soft spot for suddenly making really dire, grim statements in otherwise totally pedestrian conversations
It genuinely boggles that so many people would take "the evil night-horrors" as an actual argument for this
Well someone doesn’t have depression and likes to flaunt it
I have depression and a massive fear of guns. Like I can't stand being anywhere near one or someone holding one. I do my best to avoid the gun section of Walmart whenever I have to go there.
I have depression. Depression and guns do not mix well.
Not with that attitude 😁
I've faced many attempts to severely harm me but I usually escaped. I failed to escape twice: got kneecapped with a bat once (leaving me with a permanent injury), and stabbed once miraculously missing anything vital.
My crime: having to work late, growing up in a poor neighbourhood.
I'd feel a lot safer if I could be armed. I don't want to die.
There are plenty self defence tools apart from guns.
That’s a hell of a thing to say to a person who has literally been stabbed.
Why? I mean if a gun could help you in that situation, some other non lethal stuff could have also been enough. At least those are enough for people not in the US facing similar situations.
Exactly I've never needed a gun I think its purely marketing and social expectations causing Americans to default to "muh guns" when someone's mentioned self defense. Like if ur up against guns js wear body armour at all times rather than trying to be john wick.
I've been stabbed too. Ive never felt the need to carry a gun. I face a lot of risk anytime I leave my house esp rn acc due to political unrest essentially I still don't feel the need for guns yet the government do feel the need for arming trained police (known for corruption and violence where I'm from) who I think are a lot more likely to kill me than someone w a knife. As I mentioned tho I still don't feel the need to arm myself against those people infact doing so would worsen the situation as I'd be more of a threat and could be further used for the narrative justifying the arming of police in the first place
Edit: if an unarmed person is shot by police even if its attempted to be covered up the people who were there will know what happened. if I try to shoot the police because im threatened and they shoot back that's going to worsen things. I don't see how its better to carry a gun in this situation
Rule #1: Cardio
Running away saved me a lot of times. It also failed me twice, and those two times left me with a scar and a permanent disability. As a complete self-defense solution it's a bad idea, but as part of your defense it's a great suggestion for any able bodied people.
I can no longer outrun potential attackers. This door is closed to me.
It happened to me once. I was sitting on the back porch on a farm in Tennessee, and there were cans on the ground about 100yds away. Things would have been better if I could have put some holes in those cans
Hope you had a backstop
Please... that sort of precautions are for pussies... USA USA USA
When I took a class to get my Concealed Carry Permit, on the very first day the instructor made a very interesting statement.
"If you are somewhere where you feel you need a gun to feel safe... Why are you there in the first place?"
While I did go on to get my permit I never once carried. I never went anywhere where I felt I needed it. If I became uncomfortable at a location, I left.
I got mine so it would be easier to transport weapons to a range. I got the weapons in case trump starts a civil war or something.
As well reciprocal states that recognize it so you can transport them with minimal issues as well. It's one reason to get one regardless of being in a constitutional carry state.
I did self-defense training, both learning and teaching for close to 15 years or so, I did the CCW thing, took classes in firearms as well as martial arts and the whole nine-yards for many years.
I will often reiterate what you cited there, that if you're in a dangerous situation that you already expect to be dangerous, your first priority is changing your situation. Not going to that place, working towards moving, etc. Kind of like step-one of any fight is to not get into a fight.
I eventually also stopped carrying my gun, because all it did was add extra stress to my life. Always making sure you know where it is, if you're somewhere that legally prohibits you having it, then if you do have to leave it outside of a store or business, you are always thinking about it inside your car. My greatest worry was someone breaking into my vehicle and using the gun to commit a crime, which statistically is much, much more likely than actually being in a situation where you need to use it.
I still own guns but keep them locked up. But I don't enjoy guns broadly because I've had too much time think about it. I've had to learn the law, I've had to take responsibility for teaching others how to defend themselves, I've spent too much time playing out situations and the post-event situations that most gun-chuds NEVER spend a moment thinking about.
I feel strongly now that a lot of the gun violence in the US can be connected to the general lack of respect and knowledge about firearms. The only "training" most owners get is action movies. I think if more people were required to actually study the law and play out scenarios they might be far less likely to reach for a gun to solve all their problems.
Never really thought about the logistics of having to leave it in your car. Are you allowed to take the ammo in with you?
It depends a lot on your local laws. Not every state even makes the distinction, so to err on the side of caution, I always treated ammo the same as a gun, and never separated them.
Some laws let you transport guns anywhere in your car if it's in a locked box, some laws are written in a way where that could mean your glove compartment, other states have wording that excludes a glove compartment, just as an example of the ambiguity involved in gun laws.
Also, your proximity to schools or other public services can override all the other laws. It was when I was drawing kilometer radiuses from local schools that I started to feel such stress from planning my trips outside that I decided to stop taking the damn thing out all the time, and eventually just stopped entirely.
A good CCW class will give you the most basic stuff you need to know for your area, but it does change frequently so you would need to refresh on the laws frequently.
If it's a state/federal building you can't even bring the ammo and that's still the least of concern. The person getting a firearm can get replacement magazines and ammunition for it easily. People concerned for the safety of others and not wanting it stolen will get small gun safe boxes that bolt into the car someway to stow it.
Interestingly, a lot of gun violence in the US comes down to neglected spaces. Without changing anything else, cleaning up vacant lots, demolishing abandoned buildings, adding street lights, and general neighborhood beautification cuts down on a LOT of gun violence. Violence intervention programs--teaching kids restraint, essentially--does a lot too.
I know that building community is not only an answer to violence, but broadly speaking the answer to a lot of social problems. I am curious though if you're referencing a source or study, if the neighborhood beautification projects lead to people becoming more involved in their communities, or if it's communities already coming together to beautify their neighborhoods.
As another carry permit holder, this is most certainly true. But there are a few places I will carry due to the remoteness and some of the wildlife that can eat you if they really want to. But mostly it remains at my bedside as an "in case" if it's needed. If something were to go sideways, law enforcement is probably going to be at least 20 to 30 minutes away and possibly up to 90 minutes. I cannot rely on either one of the two deputies on duty at 2AM to be anywhere near me if things go bad. Things will be well and done long before I can expect help.
Another thing most of the rabid "Gotta have my pistol and 3 spare mags on me at all times" never think about is the cost of shooting someone even in self-defense. By the time it's all said and done, it can cost upwards and beyond of $100,000+ in lawyer, expert testimony, and court fees. And you are likely to lose your job due to being jailed for at least large parts of it.
But mostly it remains at my bedside as an "in case" if it's needed. If something were to go sideways, law enforcement is probably going to be at least 20 to 30 minutes away and possibly up to 90 minutes. I cannot rely on either one of the two deputies on duty at 2AM to be anywhere near me if things go bad.
If something goes ‘sideways’ at 2AM, you expect anyone breaking into your house to ring the doorbell and wait for you to wake up?
Even if you carried at all times, and you were specifically trained (think special forces training, not I spend my weekends at the gun range training) then it’s still a toss-up if you will be able to respond fast enough. If they want to harm you, they will. You cannot be hyper-aware of your surroundings 24/7, you need to relax, you need to sleep.
I can’t imagine what life must be like when you’re so afraid that you think you need to have a gun within reach at all times.
I do not keep a gun on me at all times. Merely when hunting. I do have a first layer warning system called dogs. Hopefully the barking is all it takes to drive away a bad situation. But I WILL be awake before you can get out of your car.
And it's not about being afraid of my surroundings. It's about understanding that public safety, (police, fire, ems, and even neighbors), is a long ways away and I cannot expect timely help from anyone. If I have a heart attack at home, I will die for sure because EMS will never get there in time. So I need to be at least somewhat prepared for situations you don't even consider living in a city. Where help is a mere phone call and a few minutes away. Hell, I don't even have cell service in my yard to even call or text with.
So yes, you are at least somewhat correct. You can't imagine.
Most people don't sleep next to doors to the outside. Most windows are always locked. The least common way of a burglary happening is someone picking a lock.
You will be awake with a significant amount of seconds to grab a gun if someone breaks into your home.
As to doing it 24/7? Jesus, did you even read the rest of the post? That was the whole point of what you were replying to. They specifically said they think it's true that carrying it most of the time isn't the point.
The least common way of a burglary happening is someone picking a lock.
You don’t need a gun to defend against a burglar. Burglars are generally cowards and run away when caught. The whole point of sneaking into your house is to not be detected and commit theft. (taking something without a person noticing it).
What you might need protection from is robbery (taking things under thread of violence). A robber is not going to sneak into your house. They will either kick down your door while you sleep or simply ring the doorbell and wait for you to open. Do you bring your gun every time someone is at the door?
They specifically said they think it's true that carrying it most of the time isn't the point.
Then there is no point. They will just wait until you are not carrying to rob you.
There might be someone dangerous in Publix!!!
Lucky you!
I have. Luckily I didn't have to pull it though, I just put my hand on it and the guy holding the knife at me decided "I'll catch the next one" and walked away.
Shit like this never makes the news because it's boring and you can't prove it. Anyway, since Trump 1.0 I won't set foot outdoors without being armed and since Trump 2.0, there's never a gun I can't reach.
If it was just me, not such a big deal for a middle-aged white guy. But my wife is a brown, legal immigrant. Let's say I have drawn a line at what my life is worth.
You should be more grateful to the universe for that.
One of those things that's true until it isn't, IMO.
Not for some of us.
Even under circumstances you would think might change our minds. Even then, we won't change our minds.
So you're saying in the middle of being mauled by wild dogs that not once would it occur to you there's a tool which could prevent it, nor would you want it?
Edit; forgot the link https://www.fox26houston.com/news/harris-county-deputies-man-dead-porter-street
Tbf I carry the pepper spray for the dogs, that's where its effectiveness really shines, they can't really fight through it like people can. Also for use against people without weapons if deescalation fails, and hope they've never been to prison or the military (they'll be used to it).
The gun is for the people with weapons.
Fair enough, honestly.
Correct.
If I were in the middle of being mauled by wild dogs, a gun would not be very useful because I would already be getting mauled by the dogs. As others have said, pepper spray, for example, would be far more useful.
Most importantly: I would not put myself into a situation in which wild dogs would maul me. Wild dogs don't simply show up out of nowhere and start attacking. That news article doesn't give any detail as to how the situation began, so it's not a useful reference.
So usually you'd shoot the dog as it's coming to attack you. A benefit of a gun is that it's a ranged weapon.
How would pepper spray be more useful than a gun? As someone that's been charged by an animal on a hike, the noise (which doesn't require effective aim like pepper spray) is enough by itself.
Wild dogs don't simply show up out of nowhere and start attacking
They do, actually, that's how pack animals hunt from the perspective of prey.
There are a million tools way more suited to most situations. I'd rather have those. Guns are for pussies who think they need maximum damage all the time. You don't need maximum damage, you're just scared, and maximum damage will only make your world more scary.
My government is currently converting itself to a crypto fascist authoritarian regime, I'll keep my gun thanks.
That yall are even discussing disarming right now is suspicious.
There's also the remote possibility that I'm not American...
Yeah their opinions sound real good if you've only ever lived in relatively affluent areas. I'm sure it's very nice in Whiteflightsville 🙄
I goes some who won the darwin award will be proud of it
Here's one my conceal carry instructor taught about, and I've seen it play in my own life:
If you have a machine in your pocket or pants that is capable of taking a human life, you think and act differently. You're more situationally aware, because you don't want to stumble into a situation where you have to use the fucking thing. A concrete and steel box may be the next place you find yourself. Forever.
I lack the words to put the reader in that emotional state, but it's real. Not like you're paranoid, constantly on the lookout, but you are more aware. Used to put myself into crazy situations when I was younger, got stories all night long, but now I'm way more chill.
In the past, I have been threatened with violence, many times, from the homeless downtown.
Unarmed me: "FUCK YOU!"
Armed me: I'm out, not a word. More to the point, I wouldn't be anywhere near that situation in the first place.
"But you can peace out without a gun!"
Very true, I'll grant that. But having one makes me more aware of what's going on around me, makes me less threatening. The vast majority of us are exactly like this. If you watch GunTubers, you will find none of them talking the way we're made out in social media, drooling for violence. Most of the "give me an excuse" people are already in jail or dead. It's a Darwinian thing.
The stories you hear on the news are outliers, or they wouldn't be news. (That applies to everything else in life.)
I'll only add this: Almost everyone in America is woefully ignorant of self-defense laws. Cops are the only shooters that can kill with impunity. You cannot, almost no matter how justified you think you are. Concrete and steel box.
Anyway, I'm sure a European from a healthy society will be right along to lecture me on how nuts I am.
"Yes, this is my emotional support firearm. Why do you ask?"
Maybe getting chill and more aware is just a function of getting older. I mean, I live in a country where nobody is armed and: I get in less dangerous situations and am more aware than in my youth.
Unfortunately a lot of people seem to put a hammer in their pocket because they are always looking for nails. Hammer or not.
There are untold numbers of videos, clips, tiktoks or whatever of people who refuse to walk away from an escalating situation. Out come the fists, or sometimes a gun. The comments are full of people agreeing with FAFO with no thought of walking away and the violent means and end, and plenty claim to be fine with using a gun.
I’ve been through those courses and carrying a firearm is sobering. I don’t do it anymore, and sometimes I miss it, but not enough.
Cops are the only shooters that can kill with impunity. You cannot, almost no matter how justified you think you are.
Tell that To Kyle Rittenhouse...
He is an exception you know about because of all the news stories. If that wasn't the case, he would have not been more than a single blurb on the news and forgotten by morning. And he would be most likely in jail. A result you wouldn't have heard about either.
News outlets have a vested interest in shouting up the outliers while mostly ignoring the mundane. And cops are just the group you have outsourced the killing to so you don't have to.
Conceal and carry holders statistically are the safest segment of society for the exact reason you just gave. I would rather be in a room full of conceal and carry holders than the general public or police.
I was walking in a relatively safe part of downtown last month when two drunks suddenly started fighting over a dog 8 feet from me. I noped my way out of there. I had my gun on me but had no interest in intervening.
For the vast majority who carry we don’t want to put ourselves in a situation where you have to use it.
But yeah, I’m also sure some internet guru who has never held a gun in their life will tell me why I’m an irresponsible death machine.
UKian here to lecture you on how nuts you are: I'm sure there are cases like yours, where you will retreat from a situation because you have a deadly weapon hidden on you. I've known people who carried weapons and who would generally try to avoid danger. But I'm 100% positive that's not the norm, and most people who feel the need to have a gun would react less predictably. I've not lived in the US, but the impression I get from media is that there are a lot of gun owners who haven't trained with them or who are "muh freedoms" idiots.
the impression I get from the media
I think this is the issue the OP is trying to point out. There are many more silent, responsible gun owners than nuts.
I live in a duty to retreat state. And damn if this isn't accurate. You have to be cool as a cucumber. Back out of all situations.
You just try not to put yourself into situations at all cost.
I've been at the range and had to rent a gun, not having to do the rental would have saved me something like 1/3 the cost of the bullets.
Other than that, yeah pretty much. I've been scared as shit but never thought "oh I wish I had a gun here", much more like "how do I get OUT"?
The latter thought is how most of us gun nuts think, despite the crazy news stories you hear.
As a lawyer and a as a normal citizen (mind you I'm not American) I've been to couple of situations where it made it better. Once was against a home invasion attempt as a citizen. Other was when someone threatened to kill me in my office as lawyer. There are some more but I'll keep them to myself.
How did those situations resolve without having a gun?
Me and my family would be robbed and who knows what else the person who was trying to enter into my house would have done and as for the event at my office I'll be shot at my office. Are you really lacking empathy and foresight this much for me to explain all this to you?
No, I misread your comment and thought it was from someone who had been in a situation where a gun would have made it better, rather than one where it had.
Interesting to note though, that at least one of those situations was caused by someone having easy access to firearms.
There is nothing interesting about that. In my country it's hard to get legal carrying license or licence to have a gun. I have one because I'm a lawyer. However criminals don't care about such legitimacy issues do they? Anyone who is talking about easy access to guns somehow doesn't understand or ignorant about the fact that criminals can get those guns easier than anyone going through the legitimate ways. It's not hard to smuggle small firearms. Anywhere in the world you can find an illegal/black market gun easily.
And where did they smuggle those guns from? Countries where it is easy to purchase legal firearms?
Even with 3D printed guns, literally no illegal entity is manufacturing them at scale, because that is still very, very traceable and catchable.
If you think that's where the guns are coming from you're very naive and ignorant of how the black market works... For example: Austria where Glocks are made, has one of the most strict gun laws yet there are so much black market Glocks in Europe it's like a toy. Overall there are very strict laws in Europe yet it's very easy to find guns. Do you think people are buying them from US and countries like that and bring them to Europe to sell in the black market?
Here is the EU report about it you can read from page 61. If you don't believe me.
https://www.europol.europa.eu/cms/sites/default/files/documents/EU-SOCTA-2025.pdf
Maybe reconsider throwing around words like "naiive" when your source is a Europol briefing document covering various threats at a high level with no stats or numbers.
Especially since if you actually dig into it, you'd find that Europe's illegal gun trade comes partially from old military and police weapons from the Balkans / collapse of the Soviet Union, partially from the theft of legal firearms, partially from weapons that are imported (legally and illegally) from the US and Turkey, and minorly from weapons smuggled in from other war zones / 3d printed guns.
i.e. three out of four of the biggest sources of illegal guns in Europe are caused by legal firearm ownership, and one is the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The fact is that gun control works. Dislike that all you want but it doesn't change the stats or reality of the world. Here in Canada the vast majority of gun crime is perpetrated using guns illegally smuggled from the US and another ~15% is from legal Canadian guns that were stolen. That's not an argument that makes wide spread gun ownership look like a good idea.
I have lived in Oakland. I have lived in some of the seediest areas in Northern California. I have known gang members that wore colors. I have seen bikers with patches all over the place.
Not once have I been in a situation where a gun outweighs treating people like they are people.
I currently live in Oakland.
Then you know! I currently live in Vallejo.
I live in a country that does not have a "gun culture". I can't imagine even having a thought like that.
Sorry, I'm American.
I have, it's not fun
I’ve been held at gun point and been shot at. I feel like me having a gun in either of those situations would’ve made them worse, because you will never have the draw on somebody unless you shoot before there is a situation
Really the only times I've been in a situation where I both didn't have a gun and would like one is when I'm out on the farm and I see a rabbit. Or a magpie.
Edit: to clarify, this is in nz. Both rabbits and magpies are invasive.
Lucky you don't have a license (I assume) because magpies are protected. Why the hell you’d want to shoot a non-pest is beyond me; even they can be dickheads in mating season.
I don't know where you live, I assume aussie, but here in nz magpies aren't protected. And while I don't think they are officially classed as pests, they definitely can be.
Ah fair enough on them not being protected in NZ but I still fail to see how they can be a significant pest problem beyond swooping. Definitely not to the point of shooting them anyway.
Any introduced species becomes classified as a pest here in NZ if it either directly harms, or competes with for food any native animal.
On the subject of magpies specifically, some regional councils take a more aggressive stance than others.
The shit-list contains a few that are frequently a surprise to non-NZers, like hedgehogs.
The more you know, cheers for the links! The out-competing native animals angle makes sense and I wouldn’t have thought of. I have to admit, I would not have called hedgehogs being on the list lol.
only time I ever felt like I needed a gun is when I felt small and wanted to kill something
^you
Way to assume there mate. A. rabbits and magpies are invasive species that hurt both farming and the nz native ecosystem, and B. rabbits are pretty tasty in a good curry or stew.
Same here. I have had a knife pulled on me in a dark stairwell, have had several dangerous situations and at no point did I wish for a gun, it would have escalated those situations and made them worse. I have been able to deescalate, shock guys into being nice way more often than I would ever have imagined possible.
I'm not saying NO situation is better with a gun but not nearly as many as you think. Hopefully most people with guns never need to use them. People who sell guns sell fear, it's becomes the "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem.
Figure if I have made it half a century without needing one, it isn't likely I will need one now.
You shocked guys into being nice? How? I am curious about these situations.
Guy with knife in my face, I looked right at him and said what the fuck? He said he was trying to talk to me & I didn't respond and I just said that a knife was NOT the way to get someone to talk to you and he put it away, walked me to my floor and said thanks & bye.
I don't know, exactly, and just like a gun surely it wouldn't work in every situation but de-escalation works more often than you might think.
Only once have I had to use violence, I kicked a guy off me (I am physically stronger than I look, not objectively strong but enough to surprise someone) kicked like a fucking kangaroo, so hard he hit the wall and believe it or not, it shocked him into stopping what he was doing and I left.
Offer to give them a quick handy J.
Ha!
Maybe I’ve been lucky but always gotten along with people, been prudent, and never had issues.
Lived in major cities. Been in the military. It’s pretty easy to just be cool.
You gotta be in a fairly high risk area for a gun to improve the situation. But tons of people are in those scenarios.
It's tough to get the 3rd t.
I was once at a kids birthday party and they couldn't get the piñata broken so I shot it open and everyone clapped then the kids took the candy and all the moms put out and I found a crisp $50 bill in the couch.
You don't get moments like that without a lady derringer in your fanny pack, friendo.
You played Goldeneye a lot, didn't you?
I played more perfect dark, but yes.
Okay, but what if my self-esteem is predicated on the knowledge that I could kill anyone at a moment's notice.
Surely that suppressed libidinal desire to inflict unimaginable pain and suffering on everyone around me is worth something.
You've got a good point there... Have you ever considered using your car as a weapon against bicyclists who have indirectly offended you?
It's incredible that we feel the need to make up monsters for our movies and ghost stories when we've got prime examples living amongst us.
Realistic movies scare the shit out of me. Prisoners, Blue Ruin, The Tall Man. True psychos are way scarier than any fucking ghost or demon.
A bicyclist's very existence is offensive. But I consider the .50 mounted on the back of the pickup a more sporting way to handle things. Alternatively, mini-gun mounted from a helicopter, and if anyone asks I'll just say I was hunting wild hogs.
Motorized bicycles?
Okay, what I said before but totally unironically for everyone in this picture except Macy.
You're lucky and part of the majority then.
Queer leftist person with a trans partner and I have a Mexican name in a red state.
I really, really, REALLY don't want to need it.
I dread the day I might need it.
I'll probably just die. But I wanna believe it'll be on my feet if it comes to that.
I hunt. I depend on venison for food. Does that count? Honest question.
As a pro gun pro hunting guy
Do you actually need to depend on venison for food or do you choose to?
Personally, I think hunting is a good way to stay mindful of the food chain and what it takes to eat meat. If one is going to eat meat I view this as the most ethical way to do it.
But its not necessary.
Unless you're doing the whole process yourself (which you might be) then its not cheaper than purchasing meat. And also its not better for you health wise unless you have some sorta allergy to beef. I guess its more lean, but truthfully I'd rather have smaller portions of fatty meat for flavor and health benefit reasons than more frequent lean meat.
I'd personally prefer to keep my ability to obtain protein myself if needed and the easiest way to do that is with a gun, but I have been looking I to bow hunting because that feels more ethical environmentally and in a lot of ways safer than explosion tubes that I hold next to my face.
So I guess I have two questions. Do you need to hunt? Do you need a gun specifically to hunt?
Deer are giant rats and need to have their population controlled. Meat in the store is expensive. Hunting deer for food, not trophies, is a winning move.
Deer come up to eat the apples and other berries from the garden, now deer is in freezer ready for grill.
Hillbilly tip: soak venison in buttermilk for a few hours to remove the gamey taste
Don't hang your deer and clean every ounce of fat off and you shouldn't ever have any gamey taste.
Well, while I don't really need to deer hunt anymore, I do enjoy bird hunting. Just upland these days. So, yes, I need my shotgun and dog. There is a reason that ruffed grouse are called the King of the Table. And I live in the middle of the best area to hunt them. And I really, really like eating them. But I also forage the forest and garden and fish too. Everything I do shrinks my food budget spent. The fish I caught Saturday ice fishing is one less meal I need to buy. The 6 grouse, (possession limit), is 6 fewer meals I need to buy. Though the 25lbs of bacon I smoked this year is a wash. Still, it's a tradition I still do.
That said, there are families here that need to hunt, forage, and garden here. And if the hunt is poor, it can well determine not only how good a Christmas they will have, but how warm the house might be this winter and maybe getting new winter boots.
And there is the tradition of the hunt. Families get together and small towns around here have "hunter's breakfasts and suppers" to build community. And you haven't lived until you stand in a classroom and listened to a bunch of 5th grade students, (boys and girls both), talk about getting their first deer rifle. Almost always a hand me down from Grandpa or an Uncle. It's both a tool and an Heirloom passed down.
So yes, where I live, firearms and hunting are necessary tools to living.
I'm happy for you. It sucks having to use one. But it sucks more not having one and having to use one.
I can see situations where having one would be handy, especially in the US, but I think the likelihood of me blowing my brains out is greater than needing one to defend myself, so I don't have one.
I have, but it's because I'm trans and I lived in a bad place for trans people.
What if you found yourself with a perfect vantage point from which to snipe modern-day Hitler?
I'd probably miss so hard, but I have zero sniping experience.
And this is why practice is important ...
coward
If I had a gun in that situation, I'd likely be killed by his bodyguards within seconds.
Line of sight goes both ways.
And I wouldn't even want to shoot. I'm no assassin and also don't believe that assassinating him would magically solve all the problems his movement causes.
That's why I said snipe, namely to shoot from a long distance from a concealed location.
Also, while it wouldn't fix any structural problems it would break the cult of personality, and mean that whoever wants to follow in his footsteps in he immediate future would be aware that if they go too far there might be repercussions (unlike at the moment, where people are being killed and nobody is taking physical action to stop it).
Can you name a single instance of the assassination of a ruler that lead to a positive outcome down the line?
Luis Carrero Blanco's assassination, despite much pearl clutching, helped to weaken Franco's regime. So, when he died two years later, there wasn't a solid power structure in place to continue fascism in Spain.
Fun story, he was killed with a bomb which caused the car he was in to fly so far into the air that he's often referred to as Spain's first astronaut.
It's worth reading the whole account if how the bombing was executed, FWIW
In other news, here in Spain that joke is old enough to not make anyone laugh any more ...
By that time there was a lot brewing in Spain for quite a long time, but it might have helped to reduce the opposition to successor's reforms. We will never know for sure, of course
I am strongly anti assassination, but if not for the assassination of William McKinley we probably would never have got Teddy Roosevelt, who was instrumental in busting the trusts and restoring balance to the economy.
Give it a bit, we all will.
Most of the time you will be told “don’t sweat the small stuff”, but in this case it’s the opposite, “don’t sweat the big stuff”. Climate change, nuclear war, genocide, giant asteroids, all of them can end us in a second, and I sleep like a baby, because there is nothing I can do about it. Focus on loved ones, self-fulfilment and inner peace.
How do you plan on doing the revolution without a gun?
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" -Mao
“By any means necessary” - Malcolm X
"I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting." - Che Guevera
etc, etc...
"Hold mah beer. I gotta go to work." – My Uncle defending his home.
Idk if this was supposed to be funny, but it made me laugh
I added a little context because in hindsight not everyone will recognize that quote.
In hindsight for me, it's unmistakably a joke, but all those downvotes had me second guessing lol. Thanks for sharing the context!
I've never been in a situation where I'd need to know how to do cpr. Yet I've learned how to do it.
I think guns make sense if you live in the wilderness and need to protect yourself from bears
Not just bears and really there's better ways to deal with bears generally to avoid confrontation with them as well as other critters. Still, there's definitely instances where people will want to be carrying regardless for self protection. Hiking in remote areas you should have a rifle, farmers in the more rural areas of the country are likely to have something to deal with coyotes, wolves, bears, etc. that may threaten them or their live stock. I remember seeing a youtube video about living far north in Alaska that when it's time to take the dogs out to do their business they bring a high powered rifle for polar bears. But me going to my local game store, there's no real reason to be packing. ESPECIALLY open carry.
The city is a concrete jungle. We already said we'd choose the bear. Its not the bear we need guns for.
Bears with guns
Many do. 
Yeah I've had the tent I was sleeping in broken by a bear while solo backpacking. I didn't end up needing to shoot it but I always carry bear spray and a gun when I'm solo camping in bear country.
And Iam thankful that in my life this is true. But not everyone is so lucky.
I will gift a water bottle to anyone named "Mike D" who posts a picture of their gun within the next five minutes.
hello Mike D never showed up
may I have the water
I have, but its because of where I live.
But what if you wanted to shoot a gun? Surely that would make that situation better.
Glory to Mankind
I have always been of the opinion that if you cannot solve a violent/dangerous situation with six or less bullets, it is vanishingly unlikely that anything will materially change in your favour if you had more.
Ive considered conceal carry.
People would say my .38 special with 6 rounds isn't enough. If six rounds ain't enough to create an opening for me to run like a little bitch, shits really hit the fan and more bullets isn't gonna solve it.
I just want to run away.
My statement has two interpretations, yours is the one that most people just don’t cotton onto.
Honestly, “running away” is the best possible solution in most any conflict. And when the bullets are flying, you want your opponent to duck and cover just long enough for you to skedaddle and get out of range or into an escape route out of the line of fire. Hell, in that circumstance blanks would be sufficient to get that job done.
You can skew the results if you're accounting for bad aim.
You don't know that!! Just think how tyrannical the USA would be if its citizens WEREN'T armed!!!
Edit: I hate that I have to say this was ironic.
When have the citizens of the US used weapons to stop tyranny?
Never. A vast majority of them clap when the tyranny pushes their boots on the citizens necks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
How do you think the fascists would be operating at this moment if they knew they could attack anyone, anywhere, any home, with absolute impunity?
"But they're already doing that!"
Nope, not so much as they would. Notice the places they're snatching people, public spaces where arms are not allowed, in typically unarmed states and cities. Why the hell are they not raiding Texas and Florida where there are shitloads of immigrants?
Not that I think the actors in Ruby Ridge and Waco were saints, but notice we haven't seen anything like that since? These fuckers are much more cautious now. Which, I will allow, can make the same fuckers more dangerous. I get that too.
Why the hell are they not raiding Texas and Florida where there are shitloads of immigrants?
They are, it's literally the two most targeted states, your assumption is false.
Fool. The states of armed citizens are all more tyrannical, authoritarian, and violent. They HAVE to be.
They'd already be kicking down doors with impunity. People seem to thinks guns are kill machines when they're often a deterrence.
They already are.
Americans are cowards.
Same, been in multiple life or death situations and none were improved by a gun. Staring down the barrel is so fucking funny when the only reason you're there is because it is freedom or death. Like they don't expect you to pick death if you don't get freedom?
Been confronted in the woods by angry rednecks twice in the last year or two. Simply amazing how polite they were to my scrawny ass when I was visibly armed. LOL, one dude was so fucking mad he was vibrating, yet oh so polite.
Cops at my door were also extraordinarily polite after they walked up and say my pump shotgun leaning on my desk.
MAGA neighbor came stomping down the street to kick my ass. (OK, I started that one.) I spun on my heel, walked inside, grabbed my Colt .45 and waited. He got the idea and went home. (He never saw it, and I never threatened.)
Contrast those with other such encounters where, well, let's say it went much worse for me. And if you don't believe that, you've never had your ass kicked or had the cops fuck you up.
While guns can be excellent deterrents, please no one think they're magic "get off me machines". You never draw your concealed weapon to "scare them off". If you draw, you shoot to kill. And if you weren't scared enough to kill, why the fuck did you draw a weapon?! The court will be asking, I assure you.
Conceal carry instructor told the class, "If you shoot someone to stop a thing from happening, you better be sure stopping that thing was worth risking life in a concrete and steel box, because that might well be the outcome." Said instructor was a right-wing gun nut. Thought I'd mention that since you all seem to think those folks are constantly on the lookout to kill.
I think it's a perception and noticeability problem.
I've been around a lot of guys who cc, and I only knew because it happened or come up in conversation or someone else told me. If I walked by them on the street, never would have noticed.
Former friend from highschool, his whole family was military, gun nuts, who all cc and they made sure you knew it. The dude went into national guard and was ecstatic about getting deployed to the local large city during a police brutality protest.
For a lot of people, I feel like the later is the more common experience with cc than the former, despite the former being the truly more common one
Sure it can you just have to get through WH security and all the secret service agents \s
Damn they at Waffle House, now, too?
outside of the movies, there is RARELY (as in astronomically small percentage) one... the problem is that most Muricans live in a fictional reality with the reasoning capacity of a teen boy
They say every gun enthusiast has their scenario they're planning for: home invasion, civil war, post apocalypse/disaster, mass shooting event, mugging, etc. When I think about what my scenario might be there isn't a single one where I don't end up dead, with or without a weapon. There is no number of weapons or amount of ammunition that would change that for me.
I struggle with that reality when I think about my own relationship with guns, but I can't help thinking that "prepared" is better than "helpless", even if the outcome is the same.
I have. I've been in places and situations where being able to get someone to back down and slow their roll would have been a better outcome than what I was able to get without being armed. Shit just happened around me, and I couldn't exit the situation in good conscience. It's terrifying to try to stand up to stop shit from going really sideways knowing that if it does, there's not a lot you can do except be a meat shield for someone else. Almost all defensive gun use doesn't involve shooting; it involves having a gun, knowing how to use it, and using the threat of force to stop someone else from escalating a situation.
People say that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, and fuck me, that is extremely optimistic. I've never had the cops show up in under five minutes; the closest was about ten minutes, and that was after a shooting in my 'hood in Chicago. CPD showed up after the ambulance.
Let’s imagine that the weapons are extremely hard to get, and people can’t afford even legal ones (because of checks and prices), not to say about illegal. Wouldn’t your place be better one if that was so?
I've definitely had some rural evenings that would have been better with the ability to shoot some cans.
I don't think that's the kind of "better" you were talking about
When I'm feeling really stressed out or overwhelmed, I like to get my guns out, disassemble them, admire their engineering, do a gentle cleaning, and then put them back. Of course, double checking that they're not loaded at every step where they're effectively guns.
I've never set my house on fire, but I still feel better having a fire extinguisher.
I don't see how this applies to guns.
If your house is on fire, you would want a fire extinguisher, not another flamethrower.
I don't see how this applies to guns.
Americans like to shoot out the flames.
I personally don't find it persuasive, just drawing logical parallels isn't that impressive compared to actual research. But if you can't understand the analogy, then you're probably not mentally fit to have a gun anyway.
But... They said to fight fire with fire!
If you have an emergency you want the tool that protects against that emergency.
If there's a fire you want a tool to put the fire out. That could be a bucket, but a fire extinguisher works better.
If you are threatened with a violent person who wants to do you harm, can you name a more effective tool than a gun?
Guns don't work like video game guns. You can shoot a person 10 times and inflict 10 fatal wounds, and they can still keep coming at you.
If you aim for the head, who is behind them? A bullet doesn't just stop when it hits something.
What the chance you'll miss? A bullet can go a long way if it doesn't hit your target.
People take time to die. Other people can be behind your target. Guns don't protect, they only kill.
I’ve never set my house on fire, but I still feel better having a
fire extinguisherflame thrower
The most likely person to shot you is yourself.
The second most likely person to shot you is a housemate.
The third most likely person to shot you is a loved one.
Look up the stats on defensive gun uses. Just Google it.
The vast majority (90+%) end with no shots fired- the criminal sees the gun and runs away.
If someone threatens me and my family I want a better option than 'hope the violent criminal decides to let us live'.
Look up the stats on defensive gun uses. Just Google it.
The vast majority (90+%) end with no shots fired- the criminal sees the gun and runs away.
Because it's regularly over reported.
People call the police and claim they saw/heard a thing, then grabbed a gun. Police arrive to investigate and it is - predictably - nothing. Resident self-reports that they must have scared the ephemeral assailant of. Cops dutifully write it up without further investigation.
Gun-as-security-blanket is registered as successful defensive use.
Yeah even when I awoke to a home invader, what was I going to do, groggily shoot someone I didn't recognize that had started running?
Guns are fun toys, never a solution
And I can say with confidence you never will be.
Prior to a bunch of vets coming home from Iraq where they served as local police forces and getting jobs with their hometown police force, 99% of police officers never fired their weapon on duty. Outside of training anyway. Most rarely even drew their weapons. People who's job it is to intervene when things are dangerous rarely needing a firearm, means almost no one will ever actually be in a situation where having a gun makes things better.
At the time I believed I wanted to be a cop and was a member of a program to guide young people towards policing as a career. Of all of the police I spoke with during that time, one or two knew a guy who'd fired his weapon on duty.
Then, veterans who had been acting as police in a city where they were literally an invading military give, started getting jobs as police officers and the culture dramatically shifted towards violence. Literally it went from "question and negotiate" to "shoot first."
prior to Iraq, no police officer ever fired their gun
Somewhat paraphrased, but still, wut?
US police officers always have been corrupt as shit, and violent. None of that is a new thing
Corrupt, yes. Violent, absolutely. But shooting Brown people was much less common then just beating them with a club. Police had to, and likely still do, answer for every round they discharge.
Victims of assault and abuse are overwhelmingly people closely related to the assailant.
So this does raise the question... do you feel safer living with your abusive partner if there's a gun in the house?
that'd be a question between them, no? I wouldn't trust a partner who wouldn't want my input. I want to hear my partners input on me having a gun.
Let me try to convince this rabid raccoon into killing itself by talking to it.
Pepper spray exists...
Or you know a billion other methods of fending off a racoon
Can't tell if this is satire tbh
A lot of the other hypotheticals make more sense to me than this one. The raccoon is dying already, you just need to avoid it. A gun isn't even the most effective tool for this problem, it's a small moving target. Trap it.
How often do you come across rabid raccoons?
Picture, stick
I have! If I'd had a gun a year ago, I'd've shot myself instead of half assing it
Cornball
?
Domt unplug urself man
Get a pepper spray instead of a gun?
Summary of this thread: hey literally nazis are taking power and planning on putting marginalized groups into camps eventually, but also wanting a gun makes you a pussy you fucking degenerate just talk it out
It's okay bro, when they come for you just call the police. Totally not an extremely privileged take. No way an area being targeted for raids would benefit from having higher rates of firearm ownership.
You are going to LOVE this one.
And yeah, everyone on my block has a gun. Well-off, poor, black, white, old, young, liberal, MAGA, everyone. (It's quite a diverse block!) No ICE around here, not even in this region.
I am in dread of watching the noose tighten. They'll be here soon enough.
You're right, that one is pretty perfect. Good luck to you and your community, stay strong. I'm sorry for everything you all are going through.
In this thread: Americans who literally cannot comprehend that they are not the only country on earth.
My post was about my specific past.
Grew up with guns used for hunting in the house. I'm not anti-gun and have shot as an adult.
The current political situation in the US has had me considering buying one.
Do so before it's too late to have that option. But it takes lots of time and money (ammo) to get the practice in. There's a reason LGBT, minorities and women have been the top first-time buyers for years now.
But please, please god, start leaning now. There is so much more to unpack that most people know, and that includes current gun owners.
I highly recommend Paul Harrell's videos (RIP). He's rather dry, with dry humor, but he's more expert than anyone I've seen. He starts with a question. What about this? He tests it, shows results, discusses how fair the test was, with zero judgment. His videos are a masterclass on how to present a topic and how to setup simple experiments and draw conclusions. He is a teacher above all else.
Here's one perfectly suited for you!
Let’s stop kidding yourselves, gun owners in this current regime situation are like a bunch of idiots standing at the cliff edge waiting for someone to jump, when you all know none of you are going to do shit.
I'm most worried about magat goon squads in lifted F250s rolling up in my inclusive small blue city neighborhood in a sea of red. Which I assure you I'll "do shit" about. But if you have some brilliant tactical plan feel free to lead the charge.
Buying into antigun rhetoric is one of the biggest missteps "the left" has made in recent decades.
We have an authoritarian fascist state coalescing as we speak and there are still leftists advocating gun control. It's a losing argument in the U.S. right now. I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety. Iran was a secular, liberal state until almost 1980 when they (mostly legitimately) elected an Islamist theocracy; it could happen here.
Our current situation really is the culmination of almost 70 years of rightwing efforts. It’s a long listen but worth checking out How Conservatism Won by Robert Evans. He lays out in a clear concise way “how a consortium of rich failsons got together to fund a network of right wing think tanks and shift American culture in a fun new direction. (note: it was not actually fun at all).” They’ve been very successful and those think tanks are now pipelines used to funnel ideological purists into powerful positions like our current Supreme Court.
The shadowy cabals the rightwing says are behind everything is classic projection again, they're controlled by shadowy cabals of rich people. One of the primary ghouls/traitors responsible for the attempted overthrow of our government on J6 was Roger Stone, the same traitorous ratfucker who began his career working for Nixon and has a fucking Nixon tattoo on his back. It's really impossible to overstate how bad these people are and they're winning.
The coup was successful, they're in power and if they don't want to give it up they won't.
Get to know people in your community. Take an interest in growing food, learn how to fix things. Establish secondary lines of communication and start preparing.
https://www.dsausa.org/
https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/
https://socialistra.org/
https://generalstrikeus.com/
https://afsc.org/news/how-create-mutual-aid-network
https://www.immigrantdefenseproject.org/raids/
https://mutualaidhub.org/
i replied elsewhere:
My post was about my specific past.
Grew up with guns used for hunting in the house. I’m not anti-gun and have shot as an adult.
The current political situation in the US has had me considering buying one.
The reply was not on your ass! We all good!
But it's a solid reply to the poster above.
Copy/paste reply for you smug assholes:
I'm far more heavily armed than most. I could outfit my entire block, though they're already armed; young, old, liberal, MAGA. Yes, even the little old black lady across the street.
What the fuck do you want me to do? I'm sick of these smartass posts. Give me fucking instructions and be clear or STFU.
Fuck me. Saw what looked like an ICE thing in Alabama today, put my Colt .45 under my leg while trying to get my immigrant wife the hell back to Florida. There's a 12-gauge pump leaning on my desk 24x7 and the AR-15 leans on my nightstand. Being that there's no ICE around here, want me to hunt some down a couple of states away? Be clear in your instructions.
I now lock my doors, have a gun in reach everywhere I go and live in fear. And you assholes, "LOL! Where my 2A boys at?"
That's not a solution for a country of 340 million people. For even a quarter of the population.
Ok, that was unsensible, sorry.
Did you know pepper spray isn't as effective on some people as others? Even more so if the person is on certain drugs? Did you know that if an assailant is pretty close to you already or the wind is blowing at you, the pepper spray may leave you just as bad off as an attacker, or that pepper spray won't make a person drop a knife?
Hitting someone with pepper spray is fairly likely to stop an attack. Hitting someone with bullets will stop an attack.
How many school shooting has been done using pepper spray vs guns?
How many unintentional discharches has let to death with pepper spray vs guns?
How many drive by's have been done with stolen/illegal pepper sprays vs guns?
How many times police officers have been killes by a pepper spray vs gun, that perp took from the victims house?
How many times officers have mistaked victim as threath when they have had pepper spray vs gun on them?
Did you know that if assailant is pretty close to you or if you panic even a little, you might shoot yourself or miss the assailant completelly when pulling the trigger? Missing a shot won't make a person to drop a knife. Using gun may lead to somebody elses death than attackers.
If normal civilians did not have so many guns there would be less guns in rotation in the streets. The less there are guns in rotation the more expensive they are. Normal thugs wont use guns in petty robbery if they costs 15 000$ in black market, but if they can buy one from the street with 300$ you bet your ass the robber will bring the gun.
Also when its likelly that the perps have guns police will always act like they have guns leading to police using violence and excess force also in situations where its not needed.
You're talking like you'll be able to live in a country that could magically remove all the guns, keep em out, and never possibly need any against a tyrannical government.
I live in a country where there are about 30 guns per 100 citizens and over half of the adult males have served conscription and we have one of the lowest amount of gun related violence in the world because strick gun control
The tyrannical goverment argument is strawman. USA alredy has soldiers (national guard) walking in cities, minorities are unlafully detained by troops without showing any signia or seemingly needing any due process for their acts. Bombing and attacking neighboring countries, sinking civilian ships on international waters. 1.25 million citizens are in federal custody in system that is designed around to keep minorities in prisons whitout any care of rehibiliating them because the law essentially gives the goverment the right to use them as a slave labor. Your workers rights are a joke where any employee can be fired without any reason, unless they have managed to somehow unionise in the system that gives companies every change they can to crush unionising.
The second amendment is joke that people seem to cling on thinking some addition made to a paper, your president seem to ignore at every turn it suits them, would be somehow relevant in after hundreds of years have passes since people who wrote it have allready died. If it had any real meaning in the original meaning, there would allready be some militia rattling around.
Just google little around and look how mysteriously in countries with strick gun laws have less gun releated violence.
Good for you. I'm American and our culture is sick to the roots. It's not the number of guns per capita, it's the sick people.
So most of your argument seems to not have much to do with what is being discussed and a lot more to do with pivoting over to our government that's gotten all fucked up. Shouldn't you be off standing in a field somewhere?
And how excactly you responded to my comment about the pepper spray? Or how gun violence and gun laws go in hand to hand? Look how Australias statistic went down after 1996. Must be coincidence that after gun law reform fatalities with guns went down.
I went on a rant about your "militia against the tyrannical goverment" bull. Its just convinient excuse for cowboys to feel good owning guns.
Australia is a globally poor country (by total in the country. Individually you're doing well) with a small population surrounded by a lot of water.
If you think things that work in a country like Australia with a mere 27 million people can work the same as a place like the USA with a population of 340 million and land bordered with Mexico and Canada, you're thinking like a child.
How about europe? EU alone has 450 million people with higher density living than USA and neighbors like Russia, Turkey and very short boat ride to Afrika and middle east, not to mention recent and not so recent wars that left millions of guns and and even more munitions, and explosives in the cellars and attics of people.
USA has multitudes of more gun related violence than whole EU.
I just cant understand how you guys see the problem and just resist doing anything to it. Like its some great victory for freedom to have children have to do shooter drills in schools. Espesially when there are so easy steps you could do.
We don't get gassed on trains.
To be honest im not sure what you are referencing now.
Sounds like you need to put yourself in different situations.
Why, being safe isn't a bad thing.
Because this guy wants to kill people.