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The whole "toilet seat up, toilet seat down" gender debate could be solved by everybody putting the seat and lid down.

8d 8h ago by lemmy.ca/u/Quilotoa in showerthoughts

I don't even piss standing up anymore, but I'm still a firm believer in the concept of "it really isn't that hard to just look before you sit".

I don't even piss standing up anymore

the correct solution.

True power comes from not using the power.

I can stand and piss... but for many reasons I prefer to sit.

For me the algorithm is "if(wearing_glasses == True and is_brightly_lit == True): stand; else: sit".

Your variables are already booleans, so you can just write:

if wearing_glasses and is_brightly_lit

Are they though? Maybe they are inputs that haven't been sanitised but the language has two kinds of equals and is you use the double equals then it tries to coerce it for you. Lol that with would be silly!

lol what a funny lamguage design horror story. I'm sure glad it's not real

yes but it makes it clearer to do isWearingGlasses == true

The compiler/interpreter/etc will convert it to the most efficient implementation regardless of what you the human type. If you're used to the if [boolean] convention use that, if you're used to if [boolean] == true use that, it does not matter except to style commissars.

Tbh, it's just easier and less messy. I don't gotta focus on aiming, and I don't have to worry about getting griped at for forgetting to put the seat down. Standing is really only a better option if you're in public and in a rush.

Certain toilets are on the small size for my... equipment. And I periodically find my dongle touching porcelain. This also results in some backspray which is annoying to clean up.

I've found it easier and less messy to piss standing. But I also got a fancy bidet for my wife's Christmas present years ago. It automates the whole task of opening and closing, does a bit of self-cleaning, and saves us a few bucks on toilet paper month-to-month. So its less of an issue.

Yet another problem solved by being a grower

nsfw

Sometimes I piss too hard or at the wrong angle or something while I'm having a big one while I'm also having a shit and it somehow escapes under the rim and I end up with piss all over the floor. The amount of piss from that Vs micro spray is incomparable.

This is the exact problem I have with sitting to take a piss and, while I find it more comfortable, I’d prefer not to have to wash myself in the sink after every piss to feel clean again. Standing just cuts out the chance of getting that icy spicy porcelain all up on my wing wang.

Are you washing your pingas in the sink

Please tell me you only do this at home

The real problem is that those toilets are just too small. It's the same as those sinks that have the faucet 1 micrometer from the sink edge. I truly don't get it

I can get piss on the floor when sitting on the toilet too.

Yeah, for men, standing up is just going to get piss everywhere. Men also need to wipe themselves afterwards, not just shake. Some men consider both of these practices to be overly-feminizing or whatever, but not having piss all over yourself and the bathroom is unequivocally a good thing.

I wear shorts for most of the year. Using a urinal while wearing shorts, you realise how much piss splashes everywhere. Really not hygienic.

This is exactly why I stopped bothering with toilets

The pigeon technique, just do it while in motion. Brave

Couldn't agree more

Not sitting in your own piss and shit is for women and gay people obviously

All you want

You can shake and dance

But the last two drops

Are in your pants

I started doing this over 30 years ago, when I shared a restroom at work with a few women. I kept doing it.

Where I grew up and live, there are two types of toilets, those designed to be sat upon, and those designed to be stood in front of. Use them as they were designed to be used, and they work better.

I've only ever seen photos of squat toilets. I imagine that men stand in front of them and piss all over them?

It's a lesson you learn once.

Apparently not, considering the bitchy comments I've gotten from women in my life lol.I learned it after the first time, but hey.

The lid always goes down when not in use at my house.

"It's a shit receptacle, not a water feature" has been repeated to anyone who doesn't know the rule.

I've had my neighbor get their sewer line worked on that somehow resulted in making my toilets explode with sewer gas and shit particles.

The lid stays down.

I genuinely cannot understand why someone wouldn't want their seat and lid down at all times when not in use.

I switched out to the slow close seats so there's really no effort or slamming. Just push, wait 2 seconds, then flush.

I would agree, but just yesterday I was visiting my mom and she asked that we leave the lid up in the rarely used guest bathroom because with it closed, it encourages mold growth. So I guess there's that.

That’s a fair case. We don’t use one of our tubs and every once in a while we have to flush it with water because we get sewer smell. Unused bathroom facilities apparently cause problems.

Make sure you work the valves on toilets, showers, tubs, and faucets as well. They will dry out if you don’t and then you’ll get leaks.

Isn't the smell just because the airlock dries out?

I think so; that’s why we run the water.

This might be true if there is existing live mold somewhere in the toilet (for that, monthly tank bleach tablet) but otherwise a lid prevents spores from settling in the first place.

Humidity reduction by ventilation can slow/delay mold but only eradication stops it.

Well they're on a well with a septic tank which means no chlorine in the water and they wouldn't want put a bleach tab in because of the septic. But I agree it would be good to eradicate it if possible.

Even with the lid down, there are thousands of spores down there. It doesn't need constant airflow to have spores, all air is filled with spores.

All air is filled with spores.

Uh huh

It is not new knowledge...

It's late, I'm drunk, I barely remembered to get the seat up before doing my business, and I'm used to living on my own.

Even when I lived alone and was drunk, I closed the lid. Doesn't make sense to me.

Lots of things don't make sense when you're drunk

Flushing with the lid up is gross. I do not want to have poo particles flying around and landing on my toothbrush. But maybe that is just me... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Always keep the lid down to minimize poop spray!

You don't want to microdose poop to boost your immune system? Lame.

Flushing with the lid up is 🤢

But then you dont get to watch it go down

How long do you wait before lifting the lid back up to check for streaks?

Until the flush is done

But how do you check if you need to brush the bowl? Do you just wait for the flush to end and then raise the lid again to check under?

Gonna be honest, I'm just peeing that off the next time I go.

The brush is for routine cleans or times of true digestive discord.

If I lived alone I might resort to this laziness. But I have only lived alone for 8 months in 52 years.

Put toilet paper into the bowl before pooping and you never have a need to brush the bowl.

if your shits are thick enough, every flush is a brush flush.

Also keeps the fecal aerosol to a minimum.

Lid down is a win for everyone.

It could also be solved by everybody always putting the seat up ...

But it won't because everybody not agreeing on one course of action is the more fundamental problem.

You're basically just saying "This disagreement could be solved if everybody would agree".

But seat (edit: I meant lid) down is more hygienic when you flush. It isv the morally situation superior position

How is it more hygienic? I can't imagine that extra brim holding off a lot of the shit particles launched into the room upon flushing.

It doesn’t make your bathroom shit free or something but it does do this 🤷‍♀️

Not sure if it’s better or worse in any meaningful way tho

Edit: I assume commenter meant the whole seat including the lid but that could be a miscommunication

I was too quick, missed mention of the lid, that makes more sense 😄

I really doesn’t matter tho because poop particles are everywhere regardless of your toilet seat orientation.

While true, quantity of poop particles also matters.
Your body can fight off loads of bacteria. But once it gets to an infection point, it can't keep up and you become ill.

So yeh, poop is everywhere. As long as it's small amounts, it's fine.

The study where gustofwind got the illustration says it's around 10x reduction of deposited bacteria with the lid down.

https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(23)00820-9/fulltext#tbl0010

10x reduction doesn’t even make sense. It’s not possible to reduce by more than 1x, as that would be 100% of the bacteria gone.

And your link doesn’t support what you said at all.

The floor and the walls of the restroom were contaminated after toilet flushing, but no significant differences were observed between the contamination occurring with lid position up or down. Wall contamination was minimal, regardless of lid position, and there was no significant difference in contamination level between the surfaces assessed, but data indicated that the trajectory of the aerosol plume contamination may have changed. Floor contamination was not found to be reduced consistently by toilet lid closure prior to flushing.

Am I misreading something?

I'm not interested in their narrative, I'm talking about their numbers. They measured plaque formation - colonies - of bacteria from surface wipes around the toilet after flushing a contaminated toilet bowl. Depending on the location & lid state, they got, generally 103-106 plaques. 105 with the lid closed, 106 open, which is a 10x difference. There's no difference in the surfaces directly facing the bowl; hardly surprising that there's little contamination left by the time you get all the way to the walls - 1/r^2 effect. Look at the surface you sit on.

I’m much more interested in the conclusions and the meaning of the numbers, for two big reasons:

  • It doesn’t matter much if the reduction is 90%, if the remaining 10% is still enough to be a problem. It sounds like a lot, but I have some doubts that it actually makes much difference.
  • I care a lot more about locations outside the toilet than the specific locations in and on the toilet. The toilet is assumed to be contaminated regardless, the question is whether or how much it is contaminating the rest of the room.

But how does it compare to what's already there? How does it affect the average toilet user's bacterial load, and how does that compare to an approximate threshold for infection?

House dust is up to 50% human skin particles. You're breathing in all sorts of crap, and outside I'm sure there's loads more including animal crap.

It’s a lot easier to clean the walls than the ceiling

☝️🤓

Clean both. Don’t clean both.

Still. The poop particles remain.

But I don't lick the ceiling...

yeah i get the picture but the real question is whether this whole topic is even worth discussing or whether the effect size is so small that it practically doesn't matter.

i mean, handbags and door knobs are some of the worst offenders to hygiene but you never see people getting all worked up about those topics, even though i suspect they're much more significant than whether the toilet lid is up or down. that's why i'm suspecting people are inflating a small issue into a big trouble here.

I don't give a flying f about the toilet seat (it's IMO a child level discussion, do what you like people), but I and my whole family do wash our hands when we come back from the outside. Always.

yeah i do that too.

It does make a difference, it means measurably less poo bacteria on places like your tooth brush

Mythbusters tested this and found no appreciable difference.

If you want a sanitized toothbrush, you'll need to use one of those UV cases.

It keeps the fecal mist a little bit more contained.

Sure, but not really the point.

I think the user meant to say "lid down"

  • seat down: easy for one group, slightly inconvenient for the other, unhygienic when flushing

  • seat up: easy for one group, slightly inconvenient for the other, unhygienic when flushing

  • seat and lid down: slightly inconvenient for both parties (but if it's consistent then you can build muscle memory), and hygienic when flushing

You are correct, I did mean lid down too

My point is, the entire problem is agreeing to one option in the first place. Which option you pick is irrelevant.

Well rather OP is pointing out that there is a third option that both parties nay consider to be a fair compromise, and thus be more likely to agree to.

It doesn't matter if there are 2 or 20 options.

But one option is hygienic, the other two are convenience. Fuck convenience, put the lid down and wash your hands, it's for everyone's sake

It does if one of the options leads to a successful compromise. Based on the comments on this post, it seems that this solution has worked for a lot of households

Sure, whatever ... not the point.

?

I think the idea of “fairness” comes in that everyone has to do something, regardless of whether you use the seat or not. If you don’t use the seat, then you put the lid and seat down (presumably in one go). If you do use the seat, you put the lid down. Either way, you have to lift something before you use the toilet.

Personally I think toilets should just have their lids closed when not in use, regardless.

Personally I think toilets should just have their lids closed when not in use, regardless.

I agree. But the sole reason is that I don't want my cat to drink out of it (and potentially fall in). I'm also an enjoyer of the sit-down-wee, so no arguing there, either.

There are still good reasons for having other opinions about it, for people in other circumstances. And that's exactly why this is just a disagreement that can't be solved all and for once.

… if everybody would agree with me.

Toilets are gross. Put the lid down. There is some study I read that said flushing the toilet throws lots of bacteria into the room. Shut the lid before you flush.

Mythusters found fecal particles everywhere even when the lid was down. There's no escape from gross, just finding an acceptable level.

If I'm remembering right Mythbusters found that there were fecal particles everywhere, but in wildly different concentrations depending on the conditions (like the control being in the kitchen)

I'd have to re-watch those segments. The part that remains stuck in my mind is that they found fecal particles on a toothbrush that was in a closed drawer.

I don't believe closing the lid helps that much, and I grew up with (and still have to deal with) a toilet that sometimes but not always needs a second (or third) press of the handle, so I keep the lid open so I can be sure the water really got flushed. (It drains the tank into the bowl, but sometimes it just slowly, but steadily, flows through roughly maintaining water level instead of crossing a pressure (?) threshold and flushing out the bowl and then refilling.)

But, I'm all for closing the seat and the lid when you are done. It keeps pets and dropped items out of the bowl, if nothing else. If we have to leave the lid up, I still say seat down; that's the "ready to use" configuration for all female and some male uses.

Those fucking air blower hand dryers especially.

https://youtu.be/uFzgNSO6t6c?t=1135

Video is unavailable in my region, but thanks anyway.

Yes. Close your biological waste disposal units, ya crude yokels!

Unless you’re immunocompromised it doesn’t make a difference. “Unhealthy” bacteria is literally everywhere. You have an immune system for a reason.

Then all the bacteria are flung onto the lid, and when I sit down I might touch the lid with my back.

There's plenty of bacteria in the air already, a million more aren't going to hurt. Unless you have a norovirus, then you need to disinfect with bleach after you're done.

You touch your back to the lid??

You don't think there are plenty of bacteria on your back already? Not to mention it would likely be on the back of your shirt. What's in the air goes straight into your lungs.

Lid down gang. Stop leaving your toilet seats up.

Ive always put the lid down along with the seat. I believe its more sanitary and has the added benefit of women not falling fully in the bowl like when the seats up. Ive done this for about 15 years.

A few years after I started doing this, I was spending the night at my friend's house. I had to get up early to go to work, so I was first up. My friends mother got up next apparently. I was bombarded with texts and such, her mom was angry because she got up and went to the bathroom and just went for it after she sat down. Queue giant liquid waste mess to clean and an angry start to her day.

All these years later, I still think its one of the funniest things I've ever been part of in real life.

I was gonna say you’d be surprised how many waste particles fly around the room with the seat up - but from the sound of it, even more went everywhere with it down!

Cue

Just sit down to pee, losers.

"These invisible particles go on to coat and spread onto surfaces like floors and counters; or objects like hand towels, bathmats or even toothbrushes.
...
Toilets are scientifically proven to continue to produce contaminated toilet plumes over multiple successive flushes as indicated in the above video.
...
Toilet aerosols are known to contain Norovirus, SARS Coronavirus, Salmonella and many other Diseases." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_plume

TLDR: always put the lid down before flushing.

Oh... I'm already doing that with my wife and in any case I'm always sitting down. I thought it was more commun to do that.

I mean I always thought it was more hygenic to prevent the "splash zone"...

You might think, but a couple of weeks ago, uhh, a friend was sitting on the toilet at work when m..., I mean his equipment retracted and shot a stream of urine over the rim, which fortunately(?) was contained by his pants and underwear. Reportedly, he had to drape them over the vents in his urine-smelling office until they were dry enough so that he could go home and change clothes.

Beginners mistake, you should always wield a semi when doing this.

Everybody saying keep the lid down for hygiene reason are missing the most important reason to keep the lid closed. Anything dropped or falling will inexorably end into the toilet if the lid is up.

"This debate would be solved if everyone would just agree to one choice."

I never understood the debate. Ensure it's how you need it before doing your thing. Applies equally to all individuals for any scenario. Not difficult.

I grew up with a dog. The toilet seat was always kept down to keep him away from drinking it, because we had toilet cleaning pucks in the tank that would have potentially poisoned him. Nothing to do with gender at all.

Also the mythbusters episode on toilet water splashing out onto bathroom surfaces scarred me as a child. We have a soft-close lid and I wait a few seconds for it to get to a low angle before I even flush.

The mythbusters episode convinced me. That water flush makes everything spiral upwards, and it lands in your toothbrush.

People who don't put the toilet seat down are unaware they're brushing with shit particles.

There are such things in this world as particles.
Particles so small that you cannot possibly detect it with your naked eyes.
And I put it to you that there are particles of human shit lingering in the fibers of your underpants.

that's why i keep my toothbrush wrapped in paper while i'm not using it.

The poo particles fly out of the bowl, into the hallway, curve into the bathroom, and then land on your toothbrush?

There's eiher some crazy wind paths in your home, or some idiot put your toilet in the bathroom.

Yeah, any real gamer has it built into their chair

Lid should go down unless you want all the poopy microparticles coming from your toilet when flushed.

Amazing that people think shit aerosolizes when flushed.

A quick internet search shows that having the lid up or down doesn't matter for bathroom surface contamination

Yet, people are down voting me because of the feels.

It's not like the lid seals the toilet hermetically. There's a massive gap.

Should be easy to test, but I have to acknowledge the only evidence on the subject I use comes exclusively from the show "Mythbusters" lol

Watch Mythbusters

Although they do mention there it's not harmful

I probably should have phrased that differently such as "because we all watched Mythbusters?"

In my defence, it was late/early and I want thinking good

Not literally the shit but the shitwater does splash more when the lid is up

And it does not matter in the slightest.

https://youtu.be/elieorX7eKo

The lid should be down before you flush.
Would you put your face 8cm above the bowl as you flush? No! Even with the lid down. Any dude who's ever pissed anywhere barefoot or in shorts knows the splash radius....

I’ve always been a lid fully closed person because of animals. The water here is bad enough that the toilet tank needs water treatment pucks, and those chemicals shouldn’t be consumed by pets.

It has been such a fucking struggle with the men who visit or live with me. And it makes absolutely no sense other than just being lazy and inconsiderate.

Whenever I go to someone else’s place, I leave the lid the same way I found it, or if I can’t remember how I found it, fully closed is safest (hardly anyone gets upset by that). That’s the polite thing to do. But that’s apparently just too much for lots of dudes. They come into the home of a woman who lives alone and leave the bathroom the way they want it with zero regard for who actually lives there.

They get one talking to about it, then I start slamming the lid down behind them every time they use it, very passive aggressively. These are all adults, they shouldn’t need more than one request to put the seat back how they found it. It doesn’t take them super long to figure it out, but WAY LONGER THAN IT SHOULD! If they can’t figure it out within a couple days/visits, they don’t get to be there anymore. I can’t afford emergency vet appointments for something that shouldn’t even be a problem.

I had one ex, in his 30s, mind, who was so inconsiderate about it for such a long time that I drew Reddit up and downvotes on the tank and lid (he was always on Reddit, so downvote on the lid, upvote on the tank), to indicate displeasure with the lid being left up. That worked, believe it or not.. in a really disgustingly childish sort of way. Depressing to have to resort to such nonsense just for a safe environment for everyone who actually lives there (he did not, just extended visits).. that dude is also why I have no patience for this shit anymore, and simply disallow people who can’t respect my home. I shouldn’t have to do that.

I'm from a lid down family too but for different animals. If you left the lid up, you might come back to a family of motorbike frogs nesting in the bowl.

Haha I’ve always kinda wanted to live somewhere that random animals in the bowl is a thing that happens. Not because it sounds fun, it doesn’t, but because it sounds interesting and unique. I’m sure that would wear off quick the first time I was desperate to use the toilet and found something that didn’t belong, but still :p

My wife woke up to a scare when she found a chipmunk in her toilet in the middle of the night. We have no clue how it got in there unless it came in through the cat door and fell in (we are in Georgia in the US for reference).

I'm a woman but I grew up with guys, so I never understood what the big deal was. It's ingrained in me to check the seat before sitting, as well as to check the amount of toilet paper before going.

Guys have to lift the seat, I have to put it down, so what? I'm washing my hands when I'm done anyway (and I hope others are too), and I'd rather just have to put a seat down than have to wipe someone else's piss off it (which I have to do in public restrooms, because some women are straight-up animals there.)

Guys have to lift the seat, I have to put it down, so what?

Seriously, if you're arguing about the default state of the toilet seat, then you're just looking to argue.

Right? It's such a petty thing. Yeah, I get not wanting to touch the toilet, but I don't understand why the burden should be 100% on either gender. Just pay attention to the seat before you use it (regardless of which direction it's going), do your business, keep it clean, replace the toilet paper when it runs low/out, and we'll all be fine.

Edit to add. My ex's ex made a huge deal about the toilet seat. When I first moved in with him, there were stickers that said "PUT THE SEAT DOWN" on the bottom side of it. I thought it was humiliating. I bought some Goo Gone and removed that shit.

It's because a lot of women "hover." They don't want to touch the seat, but also don't want to use seat covers or lay down toilet paper. Instead, they squat and hover over the seat, which leaves a gap for piss to spill onto. Then for some unknown reason, they don't take some toilet paper and clean up the pee they leave.

It's terrible and I can't understand it.

It drives me crazy that I, a man, always shut it, but my wife won't. Our cat was drinking from it a couple days ago and that still isn't enough to make her change.

I literally don’t give a shit about the seat up or down, but close the lid ffs. Stop spray germs all over my toothbrush.

Also, I don’t care what direction the toilet paper goes. I don’t even look at it when I put a new roll in. I’m a free spirit.

homerskipping.gif

Any couple that fights over the toilet seat (or toothpaste or whatever other stupid thing) is doomed - get out now before it gets worse.

My wife of almost 30 years can have whatever she wants and I’m happy to provide it - especially if it’s something as stupid as the toilet seat. I spoil her, she spoils me. We’re happy.

Why is this a debate? I'm always confused by this one and how everybody assumes it's a huge argument. Why are people annoyed at either? I don't even register what state the toilet seat is at when I arrive. I'll just adjust it based on whatever it is I need. What is the supposed annoyance at lowering (or raising) the seat? Is that not what you do before doing your business regardless? Don't you mostly leave the whole lid down anyway? Why is this such a cliche? I do not get it.

I'm right there with you on this one. I've literally shared a toilet my entire life with a large family, dozens of roommates over the years, etc and I've literally never once had somebody get after me for how the seat was left, nor have I even thought about the position of the seat before automatically setting it how I need before I go. I mean I get moving the lid down for sanitary reasons but just the seat down or up? Why's it my job to predict who's using the pot next and how they'll want the seat configured? Should I prepare and deliver them wads of toilet paper too? Roll out a red carpet? Here's what I'll do, Imma put the whole fucken lid down, and then they can do whatever the hell they want when they get in there.

Yeah, with a semi-large household there's a fairly even chance of anybody needing or wanting any sort of configuration on the toilet. But mostly you just... you know, put the whole lid down. For one so you don't spray your poop all over when you flush, for another because it... you know, looks nice.

I get wiping the edge if you're a peer-stander-upper. I get making sure there's paper left. I get cleaning the bowl (which Americans don't get because they poo in swimming pools, as it turns out). I don't get the argument about the toilet seat position specfiically.

Incidentally, I used to think the argument was about dudes not putting the seat up to pee and spraying their stuff all over the seat, plus the mist then leaking under and drying at the bottom, so if you don't wipe after yourself it ends up getting all crusty under there. For the longest time I assumed the argument was that people were mad at dudes peeing witht he seat down, and only later realized that's apparently not what people are mad about?

It's like... Opening the silverware drawer when you get a spoon out for a snack and not closing it. It's a basic level of tidying up after yourself.

Oh, so there literally is no practical reason? Just pure aesthetics, OCD-ish stuff?

So does that extend to the lid and people just say "toilet seat" as a catch-all or is there a specifically cultural predilection for the seat down/lid up configuration? Because that one looks messy to me. If the goal is for the toilet/bathroom to look tidy surely the lid down is a must, right?

Why are people annoyed at either?

Gender power dynamics.

You guys keep coming back with glib answers meant to comment on the question, and you're missing the point.

I genuinely don't know what the complaint is. I need someone to tell me that it's about people finding it gross to be within 30 cm of something previously exposed to a naked butt cheek for cultural reasons or something. I genuinely don't get it. Like, in practical terms. It's not a rhetorical question.

Some people care. Those who don't should just respect them by always leaving it down. Understanding isn't asked for, just respect

Or, be an adult and adjust it as you need.

Happy (urinal?) cake day!

They care about what? What do these people want to happen that is not happening and why?

This is a conversation I've literally never had about an issue I've never heard being an issue outside of that one joke in The Big Lebowski and other US media. I genuinely don't know what sort of cultural or personal context this "caring" is supposed to be about.

Some people care. Those who don't should just respect them by always leaving it up. Understanding isn't asked for, just respect.

I say this as someone who sits down to pee: adjust it according to your own desires. Recognize that if you sit down on an open toilet that’s on you for not checking, just like if you sit (or pee!) on a closed lid. It’s not someone else’s fault.

It is also the best option as it reduces bacterial spreading whipe flushing.

That's precisely how the debate between myself any my SO was finally ended. The seat stays down now unless in use.

Where is the dog supposed to get a drink from?

My dog drinks just fine from the creek on the farm he ran off to when I was 7.

F

The toilet, since the seat doesn’t block animal access.

I’d be worried about drips from the dog though.

I don’t get the leaving the seat up as a male. When I flush I don’t want pee and poop particles sprayed all over the room. That’s why I use a toilet in the first place

I have convinced a few people in my life to close the lid by telling them. Stand completely naked by an open toilet then flush it and just feel all that water splash for that time. Repeat again with closed lid if need be. Most the water you don't see but can feel it land on you. Now just think about all the stuff it lands on and you touch in your bathroom like your toothbrush.

The one thing that really bothers me is when I see people walk up to a urinal and flush it and just stand there letting all the stuff get all over themselves from the last guy. Also on the same note people who fake washing their hands then particularly don't dry them. Like WTF all you are doing is making little pools of bacteria to have a spa day. Then you leave those little pools on every thing you touch. I rather you not fucking wash your hands at all. And yes people notice you acting like a 5 year old who doesn't want to wash his hands because mommy told him to. Your a 35 year old grown ass man Jerry. Wash your hands for real. WTF.

BTW I'm a guy if you haven't guessed and I thank you for reading about my thoughts as I fall asleep.

Yeah, I don't want splash water getting anywhere else than the bowl. Also, what if I accidentally fumble something and drop it in the water. Even if there weren't a lid, I'd put the seat down in case of a level 10 emergency

This is not a gender thing.

I dunno why people care what position the seat & lid are in. It takes like 1 second to put it into the required configuration.

When you flush the lid should closed so urine and fecal particles don’t become airborne.

They still become airborne. Someone else has been posting a link to an article which found no significant difference in floor contamination regardless of lid position.

It's an argument of gender power dynamics, ie. who is the one to be expected to adjust the seat and who gets to enjoy it as is. That's what these silly sort of things always come down to.

I e been doing it since I was 8. "Courtesy,"Google it.

Assuming 50% of people in the world have a penis (it’s lower but for the sake of argument we’ll say 50%), more than 50% of bathroom visits require sitting. People with vulvas need to sit, but so does anyone who is pooping, as well as anyone who has one of a number of conditions that makes standing during a bathroom visit untenable. Therefore, the seat should always be put down.

I agree at least a little bit... I have no issue peeing with it down. The down votes have it!

That's not how you patriarch!

By determining the average scenario and applying it to a singular household, you are committing the same logical error as racism does and therefore the toilet seat should be permanently removed /s

I always close the lid when I’m not using my toilet. So do my wife and kid. It’s weird that people leave theirs open.

If you take the toilet seat up or down debate seriously I can only assume you're a tulpa conjured from the brain of a hack boomer comedian

Definitely put the lid down before flushing. No need so splash the sharticles all over the toilet

So after flushing do you open it again to check or how does this work?

Yes of course

Yes. I'm not yet that feeble that the lid is too heavy to lift again.

If you need to open your toilet lid to check anything, you've got other problems that need solving beyond lid up or down.

So ... you never need to use the toilet brush? Or you just leave that to the next person that opens the lid?

I mean, I can see if I need the brush before I've flushed. Frankly, if I've taken a dump worthy of a brush, I can probably tell before I even stand up. Also, I clean the toilets in my household, so actually no I don't leave it for the next person.

Indeed, the poop knife should be used post extraction and prior to clean up.

Stop filling, stop filling, STOP FILLING, STOP FILLING, gluck, oof.

I did this since childhood out of spite. Child me was frustrated that I always had to put it down for my sister and she never had to move the toilet seat anywhere. It made no sense. So instead of putting just the seat down I put the whole thing, lid and all, down so that she had to move the toilet lid every time she used it too.

This spite play became a habit that I now do always everywhere

For 15 years I lived in an apartment with the bathroom shelves directly above the toilet. It's a corollary of Murphy's Law that anything dropped in the bathroom somehow will land in the toilet bowl. Hence, the lid stays closed.

Who doesn’t do this?

People who haven't seen that video of a toilet flushing under just the right lighting, where you can see the water splattering everywhere. That's who.

It's the reason why I always hop in the shower and wash my ass with soap after a shit, cause not even a bidet will clean up that mess. Ever wonder why your ass cheeks feel wet after a multi-flusher? Cause they are.

Why would you flush before you stand up

Because I don't want to stand up with shit still sticking to my cheeks. I flush immediately to minimize the smell.

i always shower and wash my ass with soap after a shit

either you need more fiber in your diet, youre lying, or youre showering multiple times a day which is... wild

How many times a day do you take a poop?

Just once but it takes all year

normal amounts

Tell me you're part of the stinky "one-shower-a-day" gang without telling me

i have great hygiene. i shower every month

Ever wonder why your ass cheeks feel wet after a multi-flusher?

I think you need more fiber in your diet..

At home I leave it down, of I'm at a dive bar or something I leave the seat up so the next guy won't piss all over the seat. That benefits everyone.

It could also be solved by everybody putting the seat and lid up. This will be an eternal debate.

Leaving it as-is after use is the most efficient (least number of seat movements)

Once standing requires lifting and lowering the seat, normalization always incurs the maximum possible movement cost per stander, while leaving the seat as-is incurs at most that cost and often less. Therefore, for any population with at least one stander, leaving the seat as-is is movement-optimal.

They want to normalize the position so its the same for every user. Statistically, people with vaginas sit ~100% of the time, while people with penises sit between ~20% and 100% of the time based on choice or situation. So the logical and most efficient solution is lid up, seat down, after every use.

Even better if the seat has a gap for urine streams, then you will never have to adjust the seat.

They want to normalize the position so its the same for every user.

That doesn’t make sense if users aren’t all the same.

I can't think of a toilet user that isn't able to sit.

Yes not every user is the same, but they generally fit into 2 categories with a few outliers that cannot use the toilet or use the toilet eccentrically, and of those 2 main categories, 1 is weighted higher than the other.

On one end, 100% of users sit, on the other end, approximately 50% of users sit. This assumes that the other users never sit, which is improbable. Realistically, 60-75% of users will sit when using the toilet, depending on their use case.

Therefore, by normalizing the seat so that the majority of the time it doesnt have to be moved, it is most efficient for most situations. However, there will be a point where adjusting the seat based on usage choice is more efficient than leaving the seat normalized.

Edit:

Once standing requires lifting and lowering the seat, normalization always incurs the maximum possible movement cost per stander, while leaving the seat as-is incurs at most that cost and often less. Therefore, for any population with at least one stander, leaving the seat as-is is movement-optimal.

Statistics prove your original comment was correct.

I'm a man living alone, with a cat. The seat has been down for 10 years.

Have the ceramic only, no seats, and the problem's solved!

It could also be solved by everyone putting the seat where they want it to be.

Do your business on the floor next to the toilet, problem solved. No more flipping seats.

  • Lid closed when flushing prevents contamination particles spraying everywhere
  • Most toilet visits require the seat down anyway

Easy choice

Easy if you make assertions without citations. The lid appears not to be effective at spreading contamination. https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553%2823%2900820-9/fulltext

Well dang. Reading this article does provide a couple more details though:

  • Another referenced study DID find that closing the lid reduced contamination
  • It depends on the toilet shape
  • Closing the lid does change the areas that get contaminated in the room (less upward plumage):

So it's not that simple. All in all (including my other point that most trips require seat down anyway) and as a matter of personal preference (I think its nicer to have the lid closed), I'll continue to close my lid.

Are you sure you read that right? They report contamination in log units, so a reduction from 6.23 to 4.81 is a 26x difference. There's not much difference on the faces of lid & seat that directly face the bowl, but even the seat top had 15x more contaminants with the lid up than down.

The floor and the walls of the restroom were contaminated after toilet flushing, but no significant differences were observed between the contamination occurring with lid position up or down. Wall contamination was minimal, regardless of lid position, and there was no significant difference in contamination level between the surfaces assessed, but data indicated that the trajectory of the aerosol plume contamination may have changed. Floor contamination was not found to be reduced consistently by toilet lid closure prior to flushing. […] it appears that closure of the toilet lid is not effective in reducing the contamination of the toilet seat area or contamination of other areas (fomites, floors, walls) within the restroom.

It could also be resolved by everybody agreeing to be responsible for the toilet when they go to use it.

Don't get me wrong. When I have female company, I do my best to leave the seat down.

I've only ever been chided on the issue once or twice in my life.

In my opinion it's on you to make sure the bathroom is ready for you when you go to use it.

the real solution is to always leave it up

The patriarchy has spoken!

Or close the lid and then piss

just piss on Reagan's grave like the rest of us

The toilet is more tidy when everything is down.

That's what I do. It's gross to keep it up in any orientation of up.

In other words: just pee and crap sitting down

I think it is solved by having a urinal be standard in a home bathroom. People like having a shower and a separate tub. Same.

The real solution is to tape it shut with enough duct tape to restrain an African bull elephant. You're welcome.

Having dogs solved the problem in my house

Lid is up because dogs piss in the toilet?

Lol I did this at my first job thinking that was only fair and then I overheard the female boss go into another coworkers office to ask her if she put the toilet seat all the way down. Apparently men are the only gender who should ever be touching a toilet seat at all.

The whole debate could be solved by lengthening toilets and everyone sitting. No more seat to lift.

You don’t all just choose the lid when done? That’s like opening a cupboard in the kitchen to get something then just leaving the cupboard open isn’t it?

Besides, with the lid closed it’s harder to accidentally drop something in there.

That’s like opening a cupboard in the kitchen to get something then just leaving the cupboard open isn’t it?

This is a thousand times more annoying!

And every other person I have ever shared a house with does it, it is sociopathic, how can people have attention spans this goddamn small, it takes 2 seconds, I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds-

opening a cupboard in the kitchen to get something then just leaving the cupboard open isn’t it?

I feel personally attacked.

It can be solved if we acknowledge the wet spots in front of public urinals. Too many men can't aim and should sit anyway.

I venture splashing (back from the urinal) is more an issue than aiming in urinals... I mean if you're not drunk or a soccer player it's hard to miss a target this close

Next best thing is to leave the seat as it was when you used it. This way the next person needs to change it only if they need it.

Having said that, in my household we close lid altogether, but sometimes female guests leave the lid up, with the seat down 🙄

That's what we do in our house, I decided it was the easiest way to be sure my son actually lifts the seat. If he has to lift the lid, he'll just lift the seat at the same time.

We have a toddler in the house. We keep the lid down because it gives us a few extra seconds in case he slips past us into the restroom and wants to splash around.

This debate always makes me think of Toni's reaction to "closing the toilet lid when you flush."

I didn't know that people left the lid up. Feels a bit like not closing the door of a fridge after you're done.

It could also be solved by everyone putting the seat and lid up, what's your point?

That's what I do. If you get a soft close seat & lid all it requires is a tiny tap on the lid.

Use a bidet.

Ok, but that has nothing to do with putting the seat down or leaving it up.

Bidets have nothing to do with the toilet seat unless you're talking about guys pissing in the bidet which I guess you could do but you could be more specific?

In this house we do lid up and seat down.

Every family member is asked to sit down.

Both decisions are purely convenience driven:

lid up -> you can just sit down without having to touch or adjust anything. After you're done, you just get up without touching anything (except to flush).

seat down -> I'm unwilling to deal with the mess created by people (myself included) that inevitably happens when peeing standing up. So everybody sitting is the way to go.

Where this fails is guests that are unfamiliar with how we do it. It also doesn't take splashes from flushing into consideration. But in all my years of using the facilities, I have not noticed a significant amount of dirt around the toilet that I would consider problematic.

The point of lid down is that while flushing you don't spray shit aerosol through the whole room.

Next time you flush with the lid open, just take a second to visualize the shit you are breathing right then.

Yeah, or maybe just don't do that, because that's not how physics work.

Do you think you are contaminated by something when you walk in the subway and smell urine?

It's just a harmless combination of gasses that we have learned to identify as such. It's literally impossible for any "particles" to travel that far, else you would constantly get smear infections just standing near a public bathroom.

What people write here sometimes borders psychologic compulsion disorder.

Urine smells, but it doesn't contain all the bacteria that aerosolzied shit does. But I guess you are the kind of person who thinks that illnesses just form spontaneously, colds are caught because you got cold and hygiene is for the weak, so there is no need to wash your hands.

Quite the opposite is true, actually. I personally consider myself on the cleanlier side from what I've heard and seen.

I just don't belive that inventing terms like "shit aerosols" is a reasonable way to discuss this topic, nor is it in any way scientifically accurate.

I would rather trust personal protection guidelines from people who are in danger of getting sick by working with feces daily than hysterical people discussing toilet seats. I think hospital staff would laugh at some of these claims.

Did I make it up or are there research papers about that? I don't know, you tell me.

Closing the lid reduces the exposure of aerosolized pathogens by 90%

With the toilet seat lid open, tests demonstrated that C. difficile could be recovered following a single flush with the end of the air sampling tube at seat level (12-fold greater counts than when lidded)

Source 1 simulates that closing the toilet lid very much concentrates the droplets near the user instead of a wider area, so you either spray yourself or more of the toilet area.

Sources 2 investigates how the bacteria behave in vitro, without any evidence of any person actually getting infected in the process.

I believe you're missing my point. I'm not claiming that it's impossible to get sick if you hold your head over the toilet while someone else is flushing their diarrhea.

Just that putting the lid down is not some kind of magical thing that will make your bathroom into a cleanroom. And I highly doubt that any droplets you could even get in contact with from visiting the toilet after a healthy person should be your top worry. Do you also hold your breath after you flush?

Just that putting the lid down is not some kind of magical thing that will make your bathroom into a cleanroom.

A nice strawman argument you have there. A shame that nobody made that argument. You would have totally owned that person if anyone did.

Sources 2 investigates how the bacteria behave in vitro, without any evidence of any person actually getting infected in the process.

Because that's how studies work. You measure one thing: Will shit make it into the air and can you measure that bacteria from shit will reach air that the user can breathe.

If they get sick from that is an entirely different measurement that depends on a ton of other things.

The point of the lid is to reduce the amount of stuff in the air, not to make your toilet into a clean room. Because any sane person knows a 12x reduction is a huge benefit and that perfect clenliness is neither achievable nor the point.

It's 2026. This discussion is no longer gendered, though it is still somewhat equipment dependent.

The true solution is to have a device you hook up to that extracts the pee and poop from your body, wipes you down, and sends you on your way. There will be no lid, no seat, just one hole in the wall you hook up to.

If you leave the seat down how do you poop in the hole?

if I have learned anything from my time using public restrooms, having it open is still confusing for some as shit still gets smeared all over the walls, floor, and ceiling.

it's the default solution in my house because of the cats

I prefer up:

  1. I get to see if the water is actually leaving and stops flowing when it's supposed to, which often happens not to be the case
  2. It's easier to put it up than down for me

No. 2 might not make much sense, but I don't like touching the seat. It's far easier to put it up with the side of my sole than do the opposite.

I started doing this after my roommate got upset with me because she blindly sat down and fell in. Then she got upset because she interpreted putting the lid down as passive aggressive.

Diapers

This is what do in my home for a long time and my wife can’t complain.

It could also be solved in any other way.

Everybody puting the toilet upside down. Everybody going outside and not having a debate anymore. Everybody outing the seat up. Everybody getting a seatles toilet.

The "everybody agreeing one one solution" is the thing that ends the debate and not what the solution is.

In my 20s, I worked in a place primarily staffed by women. As in it was just me and one other guy on the floor and we didn't work the same shift. I intentionally left the seat up, waiting for a day to get spoken to about it. Somehow in my young mind, I thought I might be able to sue for discrimination. Yeah, I was kinda dumb. Nobody ever spoke to me, so I never had the opportunity to test that.

Currently, I try to put the seat down when I'm done, even though it's one sitter and three standers in my home. My thought is that it doesn't inconvenience me to put it down, so I do it.

I wish more people had that attitude in general

I'm a bachelor. I live alone. My toilet gets configured exactly as I say it does.

When not in use or being cleaned, the seat and lid are closed. Because I'd expect Izzy to fall into the toilet then go scampering around getting toilet water on literally everything, only to go to the litter box, get shit grit stuck to her wet fur and track THAT all over the house...

Cat proof toilet: close lid. That is an order.

I know I'm a weirdo but I pee like 7x a night and I need the seat down cover up.

That... sounds like a potentially serious medical problem

I believe in the majority rule.

Got more standing pissers than sitting pissers? Seat stays up.

Got more sitting pissers than standing pissers? Seat stays down.

not if you live with a guy who piss standing and all over the seat

If you live with an lazy, inconsiderate asshole the toilet seat is probably the least of your problems.

If you sprinkle when you tinkle, please be neat and wipe the seat.

Back during covid, I ordered and installed a fancy bidet that automatically lifts the lid when you walk in the bathroom, (you need to push a button to lift the ring but it automatically closes), and then automatically closes when you leave. It also has a heated seat and heated water and air dryer. So now she doesn't get made that I make her lift the seat lid anymore.

Worth every penny.......

So where does the excrement go, on the lid?

Could be solved that way, I personally don't participate in it.

I ALWAYS SAY THIS.

The better option is a fancy japanese toilet that opens and closes itself as you enter and leave the room.

I had 2 older sisters. I was trained to put the toilet seat down.

I also grew up with a toilet with an overhang counter, so items were prone to fall in.

Do you think there's actually such a debate?

Or leaving it up.

I'M ALWAYS SAYING THIS!!

Personally, I think this is one of those "Man vs Bear" type arguments where it's not an argument about the actual thing, but an argument about gender power dynamics instead. Who is entitled to the default toilet setting? Etc, etc.

.

Please ftlog don't rehash Man vs Bear argument in the replies.

Or you could make sure it always goes up.

the washlet on our main toilet looks aesthetically better with the lid down, so it's always down even though we're a house of two cis men

tho heated seat incentivizes sitting to pee anyways

I (cis man) always fully close the toilet when it's not in use. Never would occur to me to do otherwise.

Some of my women friends leave the seat down lid open, but then their cats drink out of the toilet.

I always put the lid down out of habit. But you end up cleaning the toilet more from mold build up in the bowl.

This was my position when my husband and I moved in together, but I could not convince him.

Then we got a kitten who loved to drink from the faucet. After the second time she fell into the open toilet on her way to the bathroom sink, he got on board with keeping the toilet closed.

19 years later, we no longer have that sweet baby, but it's still a habit.

Just put it back as you found it. Easy peesy.

My woman doesnt care, she has her own bathroom :)

My toilet is always wide open.

stop crying about nonsense.
seat goes up.

Seat up - ready and clean 99% of the time

Seat down - pissed on 99% of the time

You pick.. no kink shaming.

E: in public... At home we're civilized*

Anyone who cares this much about toilet seats isn't worth associating with

Men aren't the ones complaining about seat position.

How about no toilets? How about no cities?

That's the point.

You just can't admit that women are right.