political star wars
15h 10m ago by lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/not_IO in microblogmemes from lemmy.blahaj.zone
I remember when Star Wars wasn't political. It was a time known as "the movie didn't even exist back then".
At least Star Trek remains unsullied by politics
Yeah. There's no need for politics anymore when you already have an intergalactic socialist utopia.
I'm a completely apolitical trans socialist in a queerplatonic relationship with a robotic hivemind, and I am OUTRAGED that some people these days are trying to politicise the prime directive and use it to force us to accept genetically engineered people!
- Average Federation citizen
What fediverse are you on where anyone is anything like that?
I mean I know some people here have their problems, but I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who checks all those boxes...
I'm talking about Star Trek.
"Ugh were those people not paying attention when history class went over the eugenics wars‽ Next they're going to suggest using nuclear weapons on inhabited worlds!"
Ah yes, war. My favorite apolitical pass time
Pastime?
Pastme?
Padme?
Paddle you?
Padawan?
Padawana
My guess is that makeshiftreaper's first language is a romance language where it's usually something like passatempo, pasatiempo or passe-temps.
Romance language is a correct term, but it always sounds to me like ‘my first language is the language of love 🎸’
what about the droid attack on the wookies?
Don't make Star Wars political... Except the rebels want to restore a democracy in the Original Trilogy...
And in the prequels we have literal political scenes, as written and directed by Lucas himself.
And the Andor series is literally a class on fascism. Things presented there are inspired by real world events. The second season in particular makes it REALLY clear. You literally have the Empire conspiring with media to produce propaganda to undermine the Ghorman people so the Empire can come in and steal the planet's resources and kill the people. Then the Empire stages a massacre and uses it as further propaganda
Except the rebels want to restore a democracy in the Original Trilogy.
Technically, it's never stated which form of government (if any) the rebellion wants to create after the empire is gone.
So close...
[whooosh but TIE fighter sounds]
Clearly it was a Star Special Military Operation, the emperor wouldn't just go around starting wars
Almost there...
Stay on target!
i mean, he's not wrong
I don't know if George Lucas was meaning to tap into parallelisms with the Vietnam War with the original Star Wars movie.
I mean, the plot follows the Campbellian "Hero with 1000 faces" storyline to a T.
But I also acknowledge that the Vietnam War was a major event that was going on when he was writing it and filming it, so it most likely had influence at the very least, but I believe it can be argued that Lucas was not attempting to insinuate the Empire was the United States at that time.
At the same time, though, I can see a very clear slant in the storyline that an independent society has every right to consider themselves heroes when going up against a larger, seemingly indomitable force that is doing evil while proclaiming themselves to be the good.
He did intend it to be a Vietnam allegory, with the Rebels as the Viet Cong. He was explicit about it, but for obvious reasons Disney doesn't make a huge deal out of that. But you're also right that the Campbell stuff was intentional, too.
I stand corrected then!
I have a new-found respect for Mr Lucas
You must not have seen the Andor series. Fascism is upfront and center.
But it isn't real-world fascism. Fantasy fascism is ok to topple.
Yeah, I don't know how Disney greenlight Andor, given that they haven't exactly been especially anti fascist in their real world politics. Though I will give them a very small credit for keeping Jimmy Kimmel on (albeit after public pushback, which is why they get very little credit).
Actually, that's not the only surprising thing they greenlight recently. Apparently the concept for Zootopia was basically stolen. The writer sued and lost (those sorts of cases are really hard to win). But the plot of Zootopia 2 appears to be basically an apology. See: https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/revisionist-history/zootopia-exposed-part-one . How Disney legal let that go, I have no idea.
I'm really struggling with this reading. The rebels aren't space communists trying to save their homeland from the encroaching Empire, they're fighting to restore the republic that was the precursor to Palpatine's totalitarian regime. If you allow for the sake of argument that they represent the Viet Cong, then the story of the first movie is about how a handful of heroes, some of whom were defectors from the Empire, were the ones instrumental in the first major Rebel victory, which is a bizarre kind of Great Man Theory/white savior complex that I imagine the Viet Cong wouldn't have appreciated.
Also the later movies make it clear that the fall of the republic and the rise of the Empire was almost entirely due to the machinations of one man, Darth Sidious a.k.a. Emperor Palpatine, which again points to a Great Man Theory of history and doesn't align well with the real world, where the rise of the U.S. as an imperial power has more to do with structural forces that serve the interests of the capitalist class.
I'm not saying Lucas didn't intend it to be about the Vietnam War, but I'm saying that if he did intend that, he didn't include much in the movie that supports it.
What is it about "Great Man Theory" that the Viet Cong wouldn't have appreciated?
I've been to Ho Chi Minh's mausoleum. I've seen the man. He looks as fresh as any person at their own wake.
Attempting to load the Viet Cong with some sort of firm rejection of Great Man Theory is sheer projection and completely detached from reality.
Fair.
He actually said that the Ewoks were the Viet Cong.
Well, the man who won the Vietnam War knew damn well what a "Great Man/White Savior" could do, because the Bible used to win was T.E. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
T.E. Lawrence was also known as Lawrence of Arabia.
That book is a guide to taking down an empire, and a warning about "great men/white saviors".
The key thing to remember, when fighting an empire, there are no Fronts, only Flanks.
I’m really struggling with this reading. The rebels aren’t space communists trying to save their homeland from the encroaching Empire, they’re fighting to restore the republic that was the precursor to Palpatine’s totalitarian regime.
My reading is that it's not meant as a direct allegory to Vietnam but rather trying to stick Vietnam into a blender with stuff Americans like in order to link the Vietnamese struggle to other things. The rebels also draw some inspiration from the Revolutionary War, and obviously The Empire draws inspiration from Nazi Germany.
The way I believe Lucas saw it was that Americans ought to be inclined to support the Vietnamese (because of the Revolutionary War, WWII, and general "anti-authortarian" sentiment), but the specifics of the conflict were so loaded with propaganda, racism, and blind loyalty that people could not look at it objectively. So, the controversial communist aspect was cut out, the racial lens was removed by making the rebels white, and distance was created between The Empire and the US by giving them British accents, which let people evaluate the in-universe conflict in the abstract. Sort of a "Platonic form" of the Vietnam War, if you will.
If it was intended to change minds though, it's unclear how effective it actually was. The problem is that when people evaluate conflicts in the real world, the racial lens comes back, they get immersed in propaganda about the specific group and their actions and ideology, and there's a sense of patriotism and "rallying around the flag," all of which generally outweigh the aspect idea of sympathizing with "The Rebellion."
I think it's very possible to read too much coherent political thinking into the soup of influences that Lucas was tapping into for Star Wars, particularly the first one. He was anti-Vietnam War, absolutely, but he also got to the point of filming a scene where Biggs is decrying the Empire's nationalization of industry, and the aesthetics were absolutely good Allies versus bad Nazis.
He was basically a pretty average left-leaning American boomer. He loved big oil guzzling cars, but also rooting for the little guy. He hated Richard Nixon and mapped him onto Palpatine, but in his initial thinking was an ominous but naive shut-in who was manipulated by his advisors; hardly the apologia any serious analyst of Nixon would have gone with. Lucas had us rooting for the Rebels to overthrow the Empire and replace it with the Republic, but also wove in an absolutely medieval fondness for royalty.
All of it was because the fairy tale was more important than the specifics of the politics, which were basically anti-authoritarian vibing.
He’s mentioned it in interviews, it was intentional.
there's a (rightly, it was bad) deleted scene from the first one with Biggs where it explains that he is leaving to DODGE THE DRAFT
it was going to tie nto his brief appearance at the end of the movie, but in the final version we just get to be like "ah yes, Biggs, a character in this film"
And one of his stated reasons is that the Empire is nationalizing industry. Lucas is well-meaning but all over the place. The political influences are many and not super deep, just like the the literary/cinematic ones. The brilliance arises out of the pastiche spread liberally across the bones of a fairy tale.
I read the script once and it had that scene and I thought it was strange cause I didn't remember it, but then again I probably watched it a hundred times before a really noticed half of the things Obi-Wan says in the dialogue in his house after he saves Luke from the raiders. So I kinda just shrugged it off.
But it made some things make a whole lot more sense. Like it kinda tied the story together in some ways. Biggs runs off to avoid being drafted into the Empire. Hopes to find the rebellion, but wants to keep that part quite (for obvious reasons).
So then later when Luke meets Biggs with the Rebels and they obviously know each other, I don't feel as gaslit about how I should know this character. And when they reminisce about their childhood, it makes a lot more sense when you recognize him as one of Luke's friends from back home.
https://youtu.be/fv9Jq_mCJEo
Or you know you could just take the Creator's opinion directly instead of imagining your own parallel universe.
this was way more obvious to everyone at the time since it was on everybody's mind, I would imagine
Star Wars: From the adventures of Luke Skywalker which came out before the first movie. Literally describes Emperor Palpatine as Richard Nixon.
Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.
sounds way too familiar 😭
It also just boils down to “stop showing me how what I want is what the bad guys always want.” People on the right side of history love “political” things.
/r/selfAwareWolves or whatever the lemmy thing is
I just gave it its second upvote. I'm helping!
the upvotes didn't federate to your instance due to some bug; there are 120 where it was posted and 118 on the instance i'm on


I love this gif and will always upvote it.
"Shorty was a cop??"
Wow. I had to go verify this and sure enough, I found a video from 7 years ago where Lucas said this and much more including comparing the American Empire to the Galactic Empire. Wow. I missed that reference as a child.
Even if you missed that, you probably picked up that it is against war and imperialism.
That was the part that shocked me as it rings even more true at this present moment.
Ewoks were definitely a nod to the Viet Cong
(as i wrote last time this was posted here)
he followed up to simultaneously say he was joking while also doubling down 🤦

https://xcancel.com/theronster/status/1538239717032042497
also... blurring his name was really not necessary; he's so proud of this that a screenshot of his reddit comment about it is still his pinned tweet four years later.
and it's also his twitter bio now:

Fr? I always had the impression that the Empire was somewhat inspired by Nazi Germany and the rebels were the resistance. Some of the helmets imperials wear in SW are kinda sus.
Look at you, figuring things out!
Dude, war is "politics through other means". So technically the franchise could be renamed "Star Politics Through Other Means". It just wouldn't fit on the promotional materials.
Kinda wild that their social media team is getting into arguments with randos
Star wars is a children's movie, like frozen or the little mermaid. It's just for little boys instead of girls.
It's definitely my favourite children's series with a fairly graphic beheading, dismemberment and the slaughter of children. Fun for the little ones.
Just like the classics with witches eating children
Very true, actually you reminded me of my second favourite children's film Schindler's List. They did a fantastic job making sure the parents could appreciate it too.
The Boy in the Striped Pajamas is my third favorite children's movie.
I dunno if you're being purposely obtuse, but try reading some original Hans Christian Andersen "children's stories" instead of the sanitized Disney versions.
Shit was so much darker and more twisted than anything Lucas has ever been involved in.
When Schindler finally used a lightsaber in the 5th movie it was epic, couldn't wait to get home and play him in battlefront
5th movie? Schindler was in episode 1. He was literally the man who resued the boy from the nazi slavers. The queen he was helping hide is also a jew.

Huh. That's the first time I've ever actually seen that shot in such detail. Is it ai upscaled? I always remember the bodies as being so small on the screen that you could miss them if you didn't know where to look.
Nope, not upscaled, there's a fairly close-up shot when Luke goes back to the farmstead. It's pretty quick, though I've always thought quite graphic - the skeletons aren't just burnt black, there's very clearly charred but bloody red flesh still on them. If anything this is a low-resolution still compared to watching it on Blu-ray.
I don't think the original Star Wars is a children's movie, but I do think the the series became a lot more kid-friendly over time, probably both consciously and unconsciously on George's part.
Ages 5 and up, 1978

Oh yeah? Where are all the singalongs?
In the holiday special
Edit: Oh yeah, also the yub yub song, and famously the space version of jazz: jizz
Three movies: two songs.
Not a sing-along!
So? It's fun
Never said children's movies aren't fun. Wall-e is a banger
It really is... It's hard to go back and enjoy the movies after growing up and watching like, actually good movies.