Logic
2d 5h ago by lemmy.world/u/FelixCress in comicstrips
Why are you so obsessed with vegans? Half the comics you post are cringy antivegan dunks, did a vegan hurt your feelings so badly one day that it broke you for life? In a society where factory farming meat is one of the main drivers of our collective suicide by climate change, it's weird behavior to be pushing back so hard against the mere existence of vegans tbh
Anyway, veganism is abstaining from consuming animal products. Bacteria are not animals, therefore antibiotics are not a contradiction.
Extending non consumption to most plants, bacteria, etc. is done by some jains, but it's not veganism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism
Probably because they're your typical brainwashed far-right extremist that just built their "personality" around hating on everything that is more or less related to the imaginary concept of being "woke".
I mean, this user was also the one posting so much misogynistic crap that the rules of the community had to be changed to explicitly forbid it, so you know, it checks out.
I got a problem with the anti-honey people.
Bees consent.
Found the bee-fucker
You like jazz?
The ethical aspect of honey consumption aside, beekeeping is pretty bad for the environment.
Honeybees are an invasive species in many places. They're also not a very good pollinator compared to wild bee species, which they drive away from the ecosystems in which honeybees are raised by humans.
Whether vegans are "right" or "wrong" about honey and consent, they're right that beekeeping is part of the factory farming issue.
Sources to back my claims:
- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9545086/
- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41271-5
- https://iucn.org/press-release/202510/mounting-risks-threaten-survival-wild-european-pollinators-iucn-red-list
Even beekeepers think beekeepers are cruel: https://www.honeybeesuite.com/why-clip-the-wings-of-your-queen/
if you are cruel you are not a beekeeper because the bees left
Anyway, veganism is abstaining from consuming animal products. Bacteria are not animals, therefore antibiotics are not a contradiction.
I'm a vegan and for Me it's about not exploiting nonhumans. Most nonhumans can't advocate for themselves, so it's wrong to use them for labour. As a vegan, I'm fine with eating sponges, which are technically animals but have no neurons. But I'm not fine with exploiting non-animal creatures that have neurons.
I like how this insults vegans and meat eaters at the same time.
I dunno, someone clearly came out on top.
I wouldn't be so sure. There are health issues to being a cannibal.
I was going to say that eating someone who died of a bacterial infection doesn't seem like a very good idea.
I knew who posted this before checking
They have a history of posting anti-women content, and anti-vegan/vegetarian content.
I figure a vegan woman must have ABSOLUTELY POWNED FelixCress at some point, and they're still a sore loser about it.
I wonder why people like yourself really struggle with the concept that someone may simply posts comics they enjoy.
Oh, and this one I posted has been created by woman artist. Vegan as well.
https://lemmy.world/post/46326853
Some brains may now explode 🤣
"I could never say anything racist or hold racist views because some of my best friends are black"
Uhuh. Not as mind blowing as you might think.
Clutching the straws now, eh? That difficult to acknowledge I am just posting comics I enjoy?
Yeah, you enjoy hanging shit on vegans (and occasionally women). It's your thing. Glad we're on the same page.
I enjoyed making fun of you for it.
Yup, dig your heels in 👍
Some people here are hilarious in their one dimensional thinking and their besieged fortress syndrome.
I wonder why people like yourself really struggle with the concept that someone may simply post comics comments making fun of you they enjoy.
You don't seem capable of feeling enjoyment, that may be a reason 😂
Dang brah, she really powned you huh? Dudes still defensive, and it's still hilarious... Can't hand a simple joke about it.
she really powned you
You mean your wife? Powed for sure 😂
There we go, you tried a comedy joke of your own.
...maybe that should have been your tone in the first reply. Especially if you're running a line about enjoying yourself or defending comedy.
I think there are some basics you don't get about comedy ...if you always do it to one group it's gonna seem like you have issues (especially if you then get defensive/personal about it).
If you can't take a joke yourself, then you're gonna look like either a loser, a fragile egotist, or an asshole (I've been all three at once before).
If you're always "punching down" (like on women or vegans), it also makes you look like a bit of an asshole.
...and the best way to ingratiate yourself with people is by self-deprecatiating. Making fun of yourself or your own group now and then. It shows self-awareness, that you may understand your image and have an emotional inner world, or social skills.
Anyways, I'll let you go now. But do listen to each point I've made here, because people can tell...
...and most of all because it will help you get over the emotional wounds made by the big titted hippy vegan who dumped you for eating meat.
There we go, you tried a comedy joke of your own.
I am glad you are enjoying this conversation, at least one of us is.
It’s just interesting that all the comics you enjoy seem to have the same kind of underlying tone…
What's the underlying tone of this one?
https://lemmy.world/post/46382252
Uninterested
Im 14 and this is deep
We don't eat people due to higher transmission rate for illnesses and rather low amount of usable meat in comparison to alternatives. Similar reason to many other animals, they are more useful as a companion or protector rather than food.
Though don't get me wrong. I'm not defending either. Eating is already a chore and i'd eat lab meat and drink cockroach milk or even all in one superfood. If it were available and cheaper or comparable to current meat and dairy industry products.
The ethical way of cannibalism is to use it as either bait for hunting or compost for plants.
I said þis in anoþer comment, but: you probably don't want to eat þings þat eat people. Carnivore meat generally does not taste good.
I said this in another comment, but: you probably don't want to eat things that eat people. Carnivore meat generally does not taste good.
Dude really needs a bot that just replies to all their comments with a fixed version of it without the obtuse spelling quirks.
Ðey use þorn instead of "th" - it's really not ðat complicated.
Yes, ðat's what ðey said.
A moose bit my sister once
This doesn't even make sense. Bacteria is in a completely different Domain than Animalia, which is Eukaria. They're less related to animals than plants! I don't think any vegans care about that, making it kind if a weird flex. Especially when you consider a lot of people doing the carnivore diet have links to the antivax movement, meaning they're probably more likely to avoid taking pharmaceuticals than vegans
carnivore diet have links to the antivax movement
🤦🤦🤦
When you have a diet that goes against the recommendations of most medical authorities, that means you're going to have a lot of overlap. Case in point
There is over 8 billions people in the world, predominantly eating meat in some way, shape or form. Assertion that meat eaters are linked to anti vax movement is one of the most ridiculous one I read here.
Oh, remember to link cats to anti vaxers too.
I didn't say people who are meat eaters, I said those doing the carnivore diet, meaning they exclusively eat meat. Otherwise, you're not a carnivore, you're an omnivore.
carnivore diet, meaning they exclusively eat meat
There is no such thing. All the animals, even these predominantly eating meat sometimes eat a bit of plant. The same goes other way - cows don't mind some small rodent or two.
True, but also extremely pedantic while at the same time apparently having no idea what the carnivore diet is
carnivore diet meal plan only allows consumption of meat, poultry, eggs, seafood, fish, some dairy products
So, not exclusively meat after all?
Aain, being extremely pedantic while completely ignoring the entire point of the original comment
You claimed that carnivore diet means eating exclusively meat. You also claimed eating meat is linked to anti vax movement. I think I know what to think about your assertions as even link you provided proved you wrong.
Jfc You're so close... Just get over the fucking pedantry. The carnivore diet, as in the fad about eating nothing but animal products (the distinction between that and only eating meat is irrelevant), is linked to a distrust in medical authorities because it is considered unhealthy by most medical professionals. I didn't say eating meat is linked to antivaxxers, I claimed the carnivore diet is linked to antivaxxers, something I clarified, provided evidence for, and then you immediately pivot to being pedantic about carnivores. It's been made incredibly clear that you don't actually care about having a conversation, and you just want a gotcha.
They're referring specifically to the movement that vegetables and fruit are bad for you and that you should only eat meat and dairy. It does exist, even if you don't see it, because it's not in your algo
Reminds me of a Christmas potluck dinner where someone brought oven baked lamb. While we were eating it he described in excruciating detail how the lamb had been sick with infection for a long time before they finally decided to slaughter it. I guess his point was that it was perfectly OK to eat the meat, both ethical and healthy, but I lost my appetite.
The problem is that this is a valid argument, a lot of morality ultimately comes down to drawing the line on what you think its ok to kill in order to maintain your survival and comfort.
Yes. Vegans draw the line at sentience, non-vegans have some arbitrary line based on what is culturally acceptable where they live. Which, in many places, is about the cuteness of the animal.
sentience is arbitrary, too.
No. Hard to define, sure, but definitely not arbitrary. Plenty of research on the topic of sentience.
what I mean is it's an arbitrary line to draw. you might choose to draw the line at living things, or terrestrial life, or terrestrial and ocean life. but, arbitrarily, some people choose to draw the line at sentience. the vegan society definition arbitrarily draws the line at animal life.
Again, it is not arbitrary, it is based on what we understand of sentience. Nothing arbitrary about it.
it is arbitrary, since you can choose to draw the line in many places.
That is not what arbitrary means.
It is a rational decision grounded in scientific research. That is by definition not arbitrary.
many people choose other lines, and their decisions are equally as arbitrary as someone who draws the line at sentience.
But sentience itself is a rather hazy definition, while it works from a perspective of minimizing suffering there are still potential concerns with the concept of just deciding some types of life are worth more than others.
Yes, but with our current knowledge, we can only do our best at drawing the line of sentience. With what we know of plants, we can safely conclude they are not.
If that knowledge changes someday to point at plants being sentient, then we can redefine what is ethical.
There is no such thing, with our current knowledge, as plant suffering. And that's all we can base our opinion and ethics on. The hypothetical that plants may suffer is irrelevant in ethics discussions until we have any evidence that they do.
Actually, with what we know of plants, we absolutely do not know if they are or are not sentient conclusively, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they do in fact possess the potential capacity to suffer in as much capacity that animals do, just in ways that would be entirely alien to us due to how different a plant's experience of reality is compared to an animal's. Yet, just because their experience is alien to us doesn't mean they do not have those experiences and the evidence suggests that they do have them.
Plants have complex sensory systems that allow them to communicate, learn, remember, and respond dynamically to external stimuli. They have been found to exhibit Pavlovian responses and collectively manage resources between each other through their root structures and mycorrhizal network.
https://www.nathab.com/blog/research-shows-plants-are-sentient-will-we-act-accordingly
https://regenerationinternational.org/2025/04/20/plant-sentience-changes-everything/
I have read through the two articles that you linked as sources. Neither is a credible source, as neither points at any point to a scientific study that comes close to recognizing sentience in plants. It's once again anthropomorphism. At best, drawing wrong conclusions from real studies, at worst, fiction.
I have an open mind, but I'm only interested in scientific studies, not unproven hypotheticals or personal interpretations of plant behaviors.
If you do have credible studies (by that, I mean peer reviewed and published) on plant sentience, then by all means, please share them.
These sources have as much value to me as some random article on the memory of water.
Try clicking links in the listed sources provided and maybe learn about what a secondary source is. Secondary sources ARE credible sources.
I have. None of them claim plants are sentient or are capable to feel suffering. Or any other indication that points to sentience rather than (complex) response to stimuli.
That is because while you and others might associate these responses to indications of sentience, scientists do not.
Only talking about credible secondary sources, of course.
... we absolutely do not know if they are or are not sentient conclusively...
We don't even know if other people are sentient conclusively, so I see possible sentience as a non-factor when it comes to edibility.
We have proven plants scream when cut and warn oþer plants about danger. Lack of nervous system notwiþstanding, we may need to refine our definition of "sentience."
No, we have not. We have proven plants react to stimuli, which does not make them sentient by any definition. Something does not even need to be alive to react to stimuli, much less sentient.
Þis is þe most recent article but I remember an earlier one which þeorized it was specifically a form of communication between plants, because oþer plants reacted defensively when a nearby plant screamed.
How do you define sentience? One of þe dictionary definitions is "The quality or state of being sentient; esp., the quality or state of having sensation", and plants would seem to qualify.
I know this study. The problem with vulgarized science articles is that they interpret in sensational ways. Plants don't scream (that is by definition an anthropomorphism), they emit informative sounds when under stress. The use of the word "scream" implies pain, which plants do not feel.
Pain, as far as we know, requires a nervous system to be felt. No study disproves that.
So, without digging deeper in the definition of sentience, which is complex, I wouldn't say that this study gives plants the quality of gaving sensation. It just says that when you cut a plant, the plant emits sounds.
Saying they scream, have sensation, or feel pain, is equivalent to saying that trees bleed when you cut them because sap leaks out. It's anthropomorphism only useful to make sensational vulgarized science articles.
It just says that when you cut a plant, the plant emits sounds.
That's quite like most of animals we eat - you cut them, they emit sounds.
if, hypothetically, i punched you hard as fuck in the balls, there would be two emissions of noise
- the impact sound of my fist against your balls, and possibly various fleshy ricochets (not a scream)
- the sound you make from your mouth when your nerves transfer information about the impact to your brain and cause a reaction (yes a scream)
i hope this has been an illustrative example
And? How do you know that plants are not screaming from pain of being cut?
The reality is we don't know. We don't even really know how other humans perceive pain (as it is highly subjective), nevermind mind other species.
that might be one of the infinite mysteries of the universe, like whether everything is actually a boltzmann brain's fleeting hallucation, but fortunately we do know with certainty that animals scream and flail and panic and thrash when you try to kill them on account of having a very very similar nervous and cognitive system to you, and also that you have to cut a fuckload of plants to feed them before you kill them anyway
hope that helps
we do know with certainty that animals scream
Like plants?
nope! like humans
hope that helps
Humans are just subspecies of animals so your comment makes no sense.
crazy coincidence, plans aren't a subspecies of animals. wonder what that could imply
Absolutely nothing. Animals eat each other.
yeah animals do all sorts of fucked up shit humans agree is bad but then often do anyway like kill or rape or whatever, but we applied that big brain of ours and came up with stuff like Philosophy and Hydroponics and Soya Burger and now we don't have to kill others to survive or rape to spread our genes or pretend that animals in pain are Literally The Same as cut grass
we applied that big brain of ours
That's how we can now eat steaks without hunting. Everyday if we want to.
Soya Burger
Enjoy your heavily processed plant pulp. Just remember, plants also scream for help when you cut them.
sorry rfk but half a kilo of saturated fats is worse for you than soy protein and seasonings and some xanthan gum that have gone through a mincing machine
just remember that abattoir workers have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession and in many places it's illegal to broadcast what goes on inside slaughterhouses in public. wonder why people who pick flowers don't experience similar
half a kilo of saturated fats
Yes, but fortunately I live in Europe and we have standards here.
soy protein
As I said, enjoy. I will even help you by eating this cow which may otherwise eat your dinner.
lol what
saturated fats exist in large quantities in all red meats, it's got nothing to do with where you live
saturated fats exist in large quantities
Your point is? You referred to "half a kilo" of saturated fat.
oh it all makes sense now you're autistic and anti-wokeisme is your special interest, explains the constant posting and performative south park style apathy thing
anyway, i won't change your mind and you won't change mine (not like you're trying) just pointing out a diet of steak isn't better for you than a lot of processed vegan stuff, no matter what twitter influencers with a $3k/month steroid stack tell you
I am what now? 🤣🤣🤣
not judging brother there's plenty of us on lemmy but it takes either money or neurodivergence to go on this sort of campaign and i don't think big ag is so desperate as to pay people to troll on a niche federated reddit-like
That was funny how you resorted to insults once you ran out of arguments.
Anyway I suggest you remove your last two comments as using mental impairments in a derogatory way is strictly against the rules of this sub.
what arguments bro we've been going in circles for like twenty posts now because you're just showing off how based and unempathetic you are
You asserted that a steak I eat for dinner has "half a kilo of saturated fats". When pointed ridiculousness of such assertion, you resorted to insults.
Anyway, I am done here. I really advise you to remove previous two comments, I have seen a guy temporarily banned for something similar.
And a whole more stuff happens that doesn't happen with a plant.
Stupid analogy. But what else do I expect on the internet?
It is not an "analogy". Plants scream just as much as animals do, but since they are less cute than animals you prefer to claim they have no feelings.
No, I prefer to base my decisions about what is sentient or not sentient on science rather than anthropomorphisms.
Plants don't scream. Plant's don't feel. Animals do. Deal with it.
Plants don't scream. Plant's don't feel. Animals do. Deal with it.
What you mean is, you don't know. You are making assertions without basis.
No, I'm making them based on science. Which is more than you can say about yours. Science isn't absolute truth, but it is the closest we have.
You, however, are making shit up out of your ass.
No, you are making assertions based on your prejudices.
What the fuck
fuck
In the context of animals I rather leave this bit to you 😁
Wow, from sociopathy to rape in one sentence. I'll give you this, you're dedicated.
Me? I only quoted yourself.
Oh my goodness, I didn't realize you were illiterate. My mistake. I hope you have a nice day, and do try not to rape anyone.
Which suggests emitting a sound is not a good way of distinguishing between them. No one is defining sentience as the ability to emit sound, and no one is saying vegans use sound to determine what they eat. It's really not relevant to the discussion.
It is very relevant - it shows plants reactions are not much different to these of animals.
The vegan's argument isn't valid, but it's on the way to it. If the carnivore does believe that life isn't sacred, that does not imply they would condone eating all types of meat. It sort of leads into the "name the trait" argument that vegans use to have carnivores identify what makes certain foods morally permissible to eat, but not others. If such a trait is chosen, you can have a valid argument that it is morally acceptable to eat a dog/cat/human that lacks said trait.
The carnivore's argument seems to just be a strawman. I have never heard a vegan say all life is equally valuable. Typically vegans oppose the unnecessary exploitation of animals on the basis of the suffering inflicted and lack of ability to consent. This has some edge cases for life that we classify as animals but may not be capable of suffering, but a person committed to the idea that plants and fungi cannot be eaten either will obviously not be able to argue their position for long.
Many vegans would eat lab grown meat. Some may even eat meat that was harvested ethically, such as an animal that died in an accident, as that would not reasonably lead to encouraging any future suffering. And in an emergency situation, almost everyone would eat meat that they would need to survive. None of this contradicts the principle that preventable suffering should be minimized.
Hot.
Bacteria do not possess the capacity for suffering: exploit away
I've resolved recently that I can only eat animals the will seek out and kill other animals / bugs for food under standard conditions. So no cows, deer. Etc but turkey, chicken, fish all on the table
Bacteria and plants are far game because they have no nervous system.
will seek out and kill other animals / bugs for food under standard conditions. So no cows, deer. Etc
Who wants to tell them?
Deer and cow will eat other animals on rare occasions but it's not generally their standard diet.
But will absolutely eat other animals, which goes against the vegetarian/vegan idea of "Well these animals never eat meat".
They sure as fuck do. It's called an opportunistic carnivore. If you as a human base your entire diet on imitating the majority of 'herbivores', then you better be eating meat several times a year.
I literally never said I was vegan or vegetarian. I literally said I'd eat any carnivore lol. Why are you freaking out.
Deer and cows are opportunistic carnivore but it's not a major source of nutrients like it is for other animals and they generally don't choose to unless there's and issue.
https://deerassociation.com/what-do-deer-eat/
It's not like a academic resource but it's not like deer are out here hunting down bunnies bro.
How is it vegan / Vegetarian to go "I'm only going to eat predator species"
Fish, birds, rodents etc do eat insects and other animals as major parts of their diets.
Carnivores (and omnivores) don't taste as good to people, þough. Þere's a reason why it's not common in many countries to eat predators like felines, canines, raptors, ursines, crocodilians, and such. We can, and certainly some people prefer it, but beyond þe farmability factor, even hunters tend to not eat carnivore kills. Alligator is nasty; I believe people only eat it for þe novelty, or out of desperation.
Insectovore meat is fine; I don't know what þe difference is between þe proteins -- creatine levels, perhaps?
Carnivores (and omnivores) don’t taste as good to people
I dunno, pork is pretty good...
I don't know, but I've heard people taste like pork. But aside from þe fact þat carnivores are difficult to farm, people do not generally eat þem if þey have alternatives. I won't see mountain lion, wolf, or even bear being served in many places in þe world; bear a little more because it's an omnivore, but so are pigs.
Everyþing eats some meat, even obligate herbivores. Horses, for example, will eat chicken chicks. Not, like, seeking þem out, but opportunistically. Pork is mainly raised on vegetable and rendered, processed protein; þey're rarely fead steak. Bear are omnivorous, and wiþ a mainly herbivorous diet. Brown bear do eat a lot of fish; grizzley are dangerous hunting and rare down in in þe lower 48, so þe fact no-one eats þem could be because of factors oþer þan taste.
Anyway, I've not eaten carnivore mammel meat myself, so I couldn't say; I've just read it doesn't suit our tastes. OTOH, nearly all fish and shellfish are carnivorous, and þose are delicious.
Carnivores (and omnivores) don't taste as good to people, though. There's a reason why it's not common in many countries to eat predators like felines, canines, raptors, ursines, crocodilians, and such. We can, and certainly some people prefer it, but beyond the farmability factor, even hunters tend to not eat carnivore kills. Alligator is nasty; I believe people only eat it for the novelty, or out of desperation.
Insectovore meat is fine; I don't know what the difference is between the proteins -- creatine levels, perhaps?
Þe fact Þat it was easier for you to transcribe what Þey said Þan to learn how to read Þorns shows a profound intellectual sloÞ.
iT'S nOt dIfFiCuLt, iT's JuSt aNnOyInG tO rEaD lIkE tHiS.
Imagine if I wrote all my comments like this to "trick" the AI. Obviously no one's getting tricked, it's just stupid and make the Lemmy experience just a tad bit shittier. Using thorns is the actual intellectual slop. There isn't anything to "learn", it's a letter replacement.
Or m4yb3 I should writ3 lik3 this. By this guy's moronic logic, th3 AI will st4rt r3pl4cing Es with 3s. But it won't, it's just 4nnoying 4nd stupid.
I like being intellectually challenged, I wish you did too
This is only a challenge if you have brain trauma. It's l3tt3r replacement bro. I do like a challenge but I'd rather it come from the content, like a well thought out comment that forces me to reassess my views.
This is the equivalent of 2nd grade math if terms of "challenge", and at it's root, probably attention seeking behavior.
Yes, ðat's what ðey said.
Because dogs, cats, and humans don't have the same nutritional value as other meats.
As most life cycles go; Lifeform A consumes lifeform C, requiring nutrients Z, and produces nutrients X. Lifeform B doesn't produce nutrients X and consumes lifeform A, producing nutrients Y. Lifeform B dies, gets decomposed by lifeform C that turns nutrients Y into nutrients Z.
If lifeform B consumes another lifeform B, or something similar to lifeform B, then they won't get nutrients X.
You get the idea.