MIT AI expert warns automating Gen Z entry-level jobs could backfire—and cost companies their future workforce
2d 23h ago by lemmy.radio/u/sanitation in technology from fortune.com
That took an expert?
If you don't train juniors you don't get seniors to fix shit or to build you more AI.
Every C-Suite think they will be able to snatch senior devs that other companies will train.
This is already the case at companies like Valve and Netflix. They “don’t hire junior devs”…
I applied for a job at Valve a couple of years ago and was told that my over decade of development experience didn’t make me senior enough.
Valve has the sweetest of all business models: do almost nothing, make tons of money. They have so few employees.
they save money by laying all the work on the low amount of employees they have rather than hiring more people, its probably skeleton crewed. thats probably why they make so money there, dont want to spread around.
Well, isn't Valve a company with pretty much no hierarchy where everyone is mostly equal, bar Gabe?
I mean, due to their structure, I can see an excuse for them.
Valve is a company that garnishes 30% of all video games sales. It doesn’t matter what their corporate structure is at that point. It could be two guys with buckets on their heads and they’d make bank.
Could it though? EA sells a ton of videogames and makes fat stacks yet somehow still fucks up regularly. Same as Ubisoft, which, last time I checked, tanked their stock value with several shitty releases...
They definitely know how to make customers happy, something EA never understood, but I’m old enough to remember a different time. Valve used to be horrible 15 years ago. They’d sell you broken games with no return system. They’d straight up delete games out of your library with no recourse, amounting to outright theft. The EU rolled out regulations targeting Steam’s shady practices. They’ve been okay since.
This has been the case since way before the LLM boom but it has definitely moved into a higher gear.
They really believe that seniors will move to their slop based company after all the shit they dug themselves into. The heads of these ceos must be full of unicorn shit and rainbows.
No, they think by then there will be AGI and pick up the slack.
Narrator: there won't / wasn't.
The bourgeoisie no longer holds any care whatsoever for sustainability.
Quire seriously, their only goal is to obtain enough wealth and power that they won't feel the effects of losing any of it until they die. That's their literal goal. All hell is allowed to break loose, but only after they die.
Let the other companies be the suckers that take a loss on training juniors into seniors
You know, those other companies that also use AI instead of hiring juniors.
Not to worry just let them burn the companies down themselves
Yes. And while I'm content to laugh at them, I also took the time to learn enough to get most of the technology stock out of my 401k.
They don't care. They only care about short term profits. Capitalism only cares about immediate profits and doesn't plan for the long term. The management at the top know they won't be there when the system fails. They'll get their massive paycheques and cash out their stock long before it crashes.
They can't care. If they don't relentlessly pursue profit quarter after quarter, they'll be consumed by companies who will. There is no planning for the future, only profits.
Also the system selects for mental illness so a lot of the worst offenders here literally can’t feel empathy.
Wasn't Amazon's whole thing for a while that they weren't going to relentlessly pursue quarterly profits? So they can care, they just often don't.
Companies can bleed ridiculous amounts of money if it means that they can push competition out of the market. Couple less profitable, or even negative, quarters are fine, if they're expecting good enough return for that investment. So, they're still firmly on track with maximum profit hunting, sometimes it just takes some money to make even more money.
Walmart used to, probably still does, use other stores as welfare generators for newer stores. The reason was/is because that means the new store can undercut all local competition long enough to drive them out of business and the jack the prices afterwards. Corporations focused so heavily on lying, cheating, and stealing do not do anything out of the good ess of their hearts.
Funny thing, Walmart tried to do exactly that when they were trying to get a foothold in germany, but failed massively, lol.
see The People's Republic of Walmart
I worked in the energy industry for over a decade and a half and I was amazed at how every CEO we had (because they rotated out every couple of years) seemed to only pick the actions that made stort term money while royally screwing over the next CEO's tenure. And the crazy part was everyone knew this was happening. Some CEOs even stated the quiet part out loud.
The onus is on us, we senior tech workers, to gouge the absolute shit out of future companies to show them the error of their ways.
And when they start hiring juniors again, insist on onboarding those motherfuckers like you're teaching a CS degree. The young'ns deserve to learn, this is some bullshit.
Only semi-related but check for local computer clubs/maker spaces in your area. Ours does everything from tutoring/group learning to monthly LAN parties. Learning CAD from Youtube is okay, learning CAD while being able to ask questions of a professional engineer is even better!
I've been helping people move to/learn Linux (we have a bunch of donated Windows 10 desktop hardware to play with), it's pretty rewarding to teach people who actually want to learn (training new hires who are clearly bored is not so much...) and we usually end up giving them the machine that they're learning on if they need it.
Just another way to pass it on and get some offline nerd socialization, if you're into that kind of thing.
This is delicious in every way, I really love it. Kudos!!
Here's my tidbit - if you're in the US and in a not-tiny or remote part of it, good chance you can find people offloading old Dell business-class laptops, workstations, all the way up to v. spendy server machines, depending directly on number of school systems, corporate office spaces (and etc), and industrial or info-tech type businesses nearby. Respectively, and with some overlap and such 😅
Beyond the obvious benefits for sustainability (reuse!) and affordability - business-class Dell have always been engineered quite well (expensively, and uhhh... opinionatedly, lol).
Arguably even more useful, all those well-engineered things were made in huge volume. You will ~always be able to find cheap parts. And, if buying a lot, by having a handful of the ~same thing (all destined for a dumpster), you already get redundancy, and...ahem...some very useful teachable moments lol.
It feels like a cheat code. Place populated enough and there will def be businesses whose main thing is snapping these up, cleaning up and etc and reselling. But I'm in a not-tiny place and I still see some deals. OTOH, all of that got a lot worse once hardware prices jumped the shark, so, maybe this tip is already outdated.
my main side project is software to create libraries of things and federate them - and part of that is I'm setting up a library here in Barcelona this year.
And part of what we'll hope to be offering is basically free tech education along those lines. Eventually I'd love to see us training people to develop, providing our own hosted LLM, and making software for the community all without the need to interact with the shitty capitalist profiteering world.
And when they start hiring juniors again, insist on onboarding those motherfuckers like you're teaching a CS degree
I love this. And I will.
🤘

o7
Gen Z? This bullshit has been ongoing since the early 00's. Every fucking company wants applicants with 5+ years experience straight out of the gate, with training provided by anyone else but them, and to pay the new hire as if they rolled out of their High School grad through the front door. Look to Gen Y if you want to see what's going to happen again (more self-service kiosks and useless chatbots). Many of the kids training for these jobs are going to completely abandon their chosen career track in favour of work that's responsive to their needs - things like actually responding to applications and paying their fucking rent/mortgage. I'm finding to people in their early 20's who're already sick of this shit, without a clear understanding of what's happened to the labour market.

Warning a company is like talking to a wall. It doesn't care about tomorrow, hell, it exists on exploitation of tomorrow for today. If you expect the free market or business to save you, youre fucked.
So I've been utilizing the big LLMs to help increase my productivity at work. And I have to say, yes, it absolutely makes me more productive.
However, I can only be more productive because I already have 25 years of experience in my field and I am already a senior and I can guide the "AI" to what I really need help with and I can see the mistakes it makes.
There is absolutely no way someone who hasn't already been doing this job for 25 years would be able to just sit down with an AI assistant and replace me.
And my company has not hired any associate level employees who could replace me. All my peers are 5-7 years away from retirement. I'm 11 years away from retirement.
The problem is that it doesn't matter how useful and irreplaceable you know you are, if a company decides it's replacing you with AI, they'll do it anyway. They may decide later that they were wrong, and you were right, but it doesn't matter, you're still unemployed.
Companies shoot themselves in the foot all the time. You can't count on them to do the smart thing, even if it's obvious. The second some C-Level gets these the idea that they can save money by firing a bunch of people, it's going to happen, no matter how ill-advised.
All a LLM gives you is three virtual interns in an expert's trenchcoat.
Yeah LLM is a useful idiot that somehow read all the programming books. It can spit out a coherent sentence yet it doesn’t understand it. Comprehension is left to the user. It’s an advanced rubber duck
I just started messing with making a server, I’ve never done it before, never really wrote code before except an Arduino blinking light. I don’t think I would have gotten the server done, at least as well or as quickly without an llm. That said, even I notice it fucking up a lot and losing the plot.
I have found it really useful in identifying useful stuff in scrap piles, one of my hobbies is scrounging so that’s been good.
I have similar experience. LLM is about as good as Google was before enshittification. All it does it replaces 10 minutes of me searching for the correct piece of documentation with 2~3 minutes of using LLM to grab the same information.
Intern could find it for me in an hour, two if he used LLM since AI works much better with jargon.
I had a manager tell the team that an LLM said we should be able to do a technical task so we should look into that.
I died a little inside.
I also use it, but exactly I know what I am looking for and what is BS...
AI should replace CEOs they’re all overpaid morons
Short term gains with no regards for the future. It's the capitalist way.
and they wonder how China keeps coming out on top
And they'll just hire more H-1B visa employees for more and more smaller roles, and they have them in an even tighter place than they could American workers. It's not like they're blind to the issue. It's the plan.
I think offshoring/nearshoring is booming right now. Tons of "Global Capability Centers" being built. It's even cheaper than H-1B.
There is an ironically a huge opportunity for upheaval of corporations because they are actually giving up huge amounts of control and leverage on their part.
Like at what point is their essentially company who's sole job being brand making and management of contracts going to be side stepped?

Read Not optimize shareholder value
Good, let ‘em ruin themselves. We need the people in healthcare and education anyway. In the meantime, tax the companies to hell because they’ve lost all value now they’re not even “creating jobs” in your country.
Not all that great for the people who now can't get jobs.
Take me for example. I like to think I'm a pretty good software engineer. And I actually enjoy it. I'd be a pretty bad doctor and an even worse teacher (I'm also a man so that would limit me to teaching teenagers and older anyway, nobody wants men near children in education).
Don't give much of a fuck about the companies, but a lot of people are now denied a career path that might've been THE thing they're great at and enjoy doing. This is about several different fields, of which mine is one. I'm quite lucky I got in when I did. Otherwise I'd have to start considering suicide by now because I can't stand manual labour or customer service.
the teachers i see employed at my school when i was in HS early 2000s who are male, that have been washed out from other stem majors, or have been gatekept from those fields altogether, not a good fit it pretty much reflect thier lack of interest in teaching.
Don’t you think that’s a bit much? People committing suicide because they can’t get their favourite career path? I have never heard of it being a problem. Before computers existed there were people like you and they didn’t all commit suicide. They chose the jobs that were available. Sure it takes some adjustment and it may not be a string of everlasting highlights, but let’s not get carried away here.
Not really.
It’s all about the rate of change: neoliberal globalization has brought down wages across industries, so fewer good jobs are left, and the not-so-good ones barely keep up the same standard of living.
From a neutral historical perspective, some serious pearl-clutching about jobs is not ill-founded.
As you say, people in the past facing these circumstances didn’t all commit suicide. Yet some did it explicitly, some did it indirectly with alcohol or other vices, others just lived less fulfilling lives than they otherwise would have. Nonetheless, we are very much encouraging deaths of despair en masse with our current societal outlook.
lower wages is the least of peoples worries if they cant even find a job anymore.
Society will adapt. It always has. People can make much more meaningful contributions to society than working at a desk at some software company. Let the AI do that. Humans are way too valuable for that. Meaningfulness of the work one does is one of the most important features of work satisfaction. Not everyone needs to be a doctor, nurse or teacher. Those are just the most common examples, but there are many more meaningful jobs where you are not simply an AI in human form slaving away at a desk job.
It is also simply not true that things like suicide and addiction rates were higher in the recent past. For example, look at drug overdose rates that have risen sharply in the past decades.
You’re sweeping a lot under the rug with that first sentence: Society will adapt. Yeah sure, barring global catastrophe, it will. Doesn’t mean people won’t die and suffer in the process.
I’m making no claims about good vs. bad jobs here; people can self-actualize however they like in my book. Nor was I making any specific point about epidemiology of deaths of despair in the recent past, but I think that trend serves to illustrate the overall point.
What am I sweeping under the rug? I’m not saying that change will be easy, but I’m talking about the end result. Too many people have made the wrong choices and got fooled by companies dangling big paychecks in front of their noses to work shitty office jobs.
You insinuated that in the past, people killed themselves more and had more addiction problems due to the fact that they couldn’t get the job they wanted. That is simply not true and just guessing at things you can’t back up. I’m showed you that the opposite is true: the data only shows that deaths of despair are getting worse than before we had all these bullshit jobs. Whether that is because of them or not cannot be said, but it shows that what you’re saying is not true.
So for the last few millennia, technology has automated away mostly manual labor and created room for knowledge work. The stuff that used to require a human brain. The "slave jobs" you're talking about.
AI has the opposite effect. Engineers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, nurses are going to be mostly worthless (surgeons will still be necessary for a while and nurses will still need to administer IVs and such, but largely anything that's not physically interacting with a patient will be automated away quicker). Anything creative is out the window too. AI can write 500 movie scripts in the time you can write one... And we were already trending towards slop with streaming.
The jobs that are safest for now are the ones where you don't need to use your brain but your body. Physical automatons are more expensive to buy and maintain than subscribing to some AI agent service and the workers they replace are cheaper.
Many of the jobs you mentioned, especially teachers, doctors and nurses cannot simply be replaced by AI because it doesn’t have the human aspect. A teacher needs to motivate people and be a mentor, understand kids’ reasoning and not display basic facts. We already had books for that.
AI is still very bad at solving the complex issues that doctors solve. It can’t do a physical examination and not everything is based on hard verifiable data, but also experience.
And nurses? I mean, you can think of that one for yourself.
Yes a lot of jobs are at risk. Not all are equally at risk though and “mostly worthless” is a looooong stretch.
A teacher needs to motivate people and be a mentor
Technically that's the parents' job as much as the teachers'. Just need to push for parents to shoulder more of the load. And who says we won't have a specialized motivator/mentor AI in a year or two?
understand kids’ reasoning and not display basic facts. We already had books for that.
But even a simple chatbot like ChatGPT is very reactive and can pretend very well to understand reasoning, just like a teacher. And every student can ask their chatbot for help at the same time. Personally, I'm from a small town in Estonia - I can tell you that when I went to school, I had multiple teachers who for sure would've been inferior to 2022 ChatGPT, let alone 2026 ChatGPT or Claude. We just didn't have better teachers available in this shithole. I've had an English teacher that didn't speak English (she was actually a history teacher and a poor one at that, they just didn't have a real English teacher to assign to us that year), an Estonian teacher that didn't really understand Estonian... IN ESTONIA. I have no idea where they dug her up from. And over the years, I think at least two IT teachers who barely knew how to use a computer. One of the German teachers and one of the History teachers also couldn't stop telling their personal stories. Learned nothing in either of those subjects that year. Luckily most of those horrible teachers only ended up teaching my class for one year at some point or another.
Actually the most valuable thing about school that technology can't replace is the physical building itself containing the students. Just having a bunch of other kids your age, who are also going through what you're going through. That's worth more than any teacher, as we learned during COVID when kids were deprived of it.
AI is still very bad at solving the complex issues that doctors solve
AI is still very bad at solving the complex issues that software engineers solve. Yet junior engineers are no longer finding jobs.
It can’t do a physical examination
Yes, that's what I'm saying, there will be people whose job is nothing more than to do things like that, to provide the data. Then AI can guesstimate shit, and the doctor's job will be just to verify that the AI didn't fuck up. There's no need to pay a great doctor that can talk to the patient, do a physical, come up with a diagnosis and solutions if you can just pay a mediocre one that just takes liability for the AI if it fucks up. You can also pay far fewer doctors. Of course there will be radiology techs, physical examination givers (might literally become a low wage job of its own to fill out standardized tests). Etc. But you'll just have one or two specialized employees per task, rather than someone who needs a multi year degree and needs to know everything about the human body.
not everything is based on hard verifiable data, but also experience.
Good news then, because AI is literally 100% experience, 0% hard verifiable data. Chances are you're adding to some future AI's experience every time you fill something out on your EMR. Especially if it connects e.g radiology data to your notes.
And nurses? I mean, you can think of that one for yourself.
I already said they'll still exist, but their job will be a physical interface between the AI system and the patients, more than anything. Maybe this'll take 10 years rather than 2, but it'll happen.
Yes a lot of jobs are at risk. Not all are equally at risk though and “mostly worthless” is a looooong stretch.
The ones least at risk are, like I said, low-paid physical jobs. Also any high-end executives. CEOs do nothing of real value, but they won't be replaced by AI because they're friends with the directors. Parliament/congress will still be around. Of course in my country they're talking about using AI to legislate as well. Or perhaps they've already started. We're fucking doomed, yay.
Safest bet in 2026 is actually trades, because that gets you a job where you still need knowledge and experience is worth something, but you also have to be present physically. Automating a plumber or electrician is harder than automating a doctor or an engineer, that's just how it is with modern AI. But with how many people are now unemployed, those jobs will also start paying a lot less than they used to.
Remember, for any job, it doesn't REALLY matter if the AI can do it well, only how well it can be sold to the government, or company stakeholders, etc. If an AI can do 20% of a person's job and the person costs 10x more than the AI to employ... That person can be laid off and other employees will have to pick up the remaining 80%, for no extra pay of course.
At the end of the day, as long as we still need jobs to live, we're all fucked. There's going to be no real middle class under capitalism anymore. There's a war on many fronts and our jobs going away or getting enshittified is just one.
To be clear I don't think anyone's losing their existing job tomorrow. Doctor, teacher, engineer, lawyer, whatever. I think getting into any of these careers is going to be very difficult soon, the salaries for new hires in particular, but also everyone in general, will drop hard, and AI will replace humans gradually, and perhaps not completely. But all of these jobs are going to be streamlined, with AI doing most of the thinking for you, and the human being there for liability only.
Technically that's the parents' job as much as the teachers'. Just need to push for parents to shoulder more of the load.
Sounds like a wonderful plan.
But even a simple chatbot like ChatGPT is very reactive and can pretend very well to understand reasoning, just like a teacher.
Pretend. Yes. Thank you. Teaching may be aided by AI. Just like books, blackboards, curriculums, videos, power points etc.
I can tell you that when I went to school, I had multiple teachers who for sure would've been inferior to 2022 ChatGPT, let alone 2026 ChatGPT or Claude
You told me I was praising AI. Then what do you call this? Guess each accusation is an admission in disguise…
Good news then, because AI is literally 100% experience, 0% hard verifiable data
Not the experience I was talking about. AI has read a lot of books. That’s it.
Sounds like a wonderful plan.
It's already what teachers are advocating for, since they have too much responsibility currently, and parents often don't have a big enough role in their kids lives.
Pretend. Yes. Thank you. Teaching may be aided by AI.
Yes, and that's enough functionally. Actual understanding is not necessary if you can fake it to the point that people actually think AI is cognitive. Hell, did you read that article about Richard Dawkins now thinking Claude is conscious?
Just like books, blackboards, curriculums, videos, power points etc.
You do realize that videos and power points aren't interactive and can't generate their own lesson plans or grade tests, but AI can, right? You can see how that's different, right?
You told me I was praising AI. Then what do you call this? Guess each accusation is an admission in disguise…
You were praising AI for causing people to be unemployed, essentially. I'm saying AI's a danger to our society because while it's still not conscious and in its current form never will be, it can displace large amounts of jobs because it's good enough. It will be used by capitalists to restructure society so we can all be in relative poverty.
Not the experience I was talking about. AI has read a lot of books. That’s it.
LLMs have read a lot of books. There are other types of AI. Every day at work by interfacing with IT systems, you're providing training material for future AI solutions in your field. They might not be LLMs at all. The contracts to train them off your patient data may not exist yet. But they will. Probably it'll be Palantir sucking up to your government to get it. UK's NHS is already letting Palantir hoover up healthcare data.
But good thing we can get rid of many doctors and teachers eventually, like you said about us engineers. We'll need them for actually meaningful work in the trades and the hospitality industry.
Please stick to one thread. I’m not reading three different ones.
Yes, and that's enough functionally. Actual understanding is not necessary if you can fake it to the point that people actually think AI is cognitive. Hell, did you read that article about Richard Dawkins now thinking Claude is conscious?
No it’s not LOL. Like you can pretend to be a very coginitvely smart and important person, but reality is different. People say a lot of things. Now we get to make memes about them.
You do realize…
Yes. I realize a lot of stuff. Maybe if you challenge yourself a bit more you could have figured that out yourself. I also realize books don’t have moving images like a video and that a laptop is not a blackboard. Thank you.
You were praising AI for causing people to be unemployed, essentially.
So in your line of thinking, if I say it’s a good thing that the oil crisis accelerated the transition to renewable energy, am I praising Trump and the Irani regime? If I tell you it’s a good thing Europe is improving their defence, am I praising Putin or Trump?
But good thing we can get rid of many doctors and teachers eventually, like you said about us engineers. We'll need them for actually meaningful work in the trades and the hospitality industry.
Aww so butthurt LOL. Grow the fuck up.
I don’t fully blame them, as much as it’s a but of an extreme take. I’ve been out a job for two years. It shohld be easy enough and yet I can barely get a response and almost never get any feedback. Sometimes I get “you don’t have enough experience in this thing that only a firm like us can provide but fuck you.” And then the alternative is being told to go get exploited for minimum wage and disrespect? I did all this and now I just have to start at square one plus debt for even less money than I was getting before? And I’m good with my hands but I’m not getting a job without other experience, so I have next to nothing to go by.
Well yeah, but your situation is much worse imo. Not being able to get a job at all and not getting your favoured career path are two different things. Not working when you want to work is much more depressing. I understand that it must be hard to get a job right now. Especially if you work in a sector that is under pressure from AI. A lot of companies aren’t hiring because of it. But things will never be the same as they were before AI. So many people will need to get a different education towards a field that isn’t as threatened by AI.
“Especially if you work in a sector” is exactly what you’re saying shouldn’t matter though, no? I could probably go get hired for something pretty quickly, if I was willing.
Definitely not. I said some sectors will be more affected than others and that people who are replaced with AI can work in (other career paths like) health care or education.
There are still sectors that have a lot of job openings and of course you don’t need to become a burger flipper but #2 is health care. And I’m sure you can imagine that with an aging population the job openings will only increase. There are a lot of jobs that only require high school, or if you want a better job, take a course.
I can guarantee they could also find a minimum wage job at McDonald's or some such, no problem. It's just the whole not wanting to do that that's an issue.
Nope. I've read enough threads on Reddit where people can't even get a Minimum Wage job because those are getting overwhelmed with applicants as well so those kinda jobs also have become hard to come by and require experience.
Well shit, some countries might be having it even worse then. Here at least there are still plenty of openings for grocery stores, fast food restaurants and gas stations. Pay is shit, work is grueling, but they never stop hiring. My point really was that these are the jobs we'll have to start choosing from, as opposed to the jobs we want to do.
Find me a meaningful and challenging job that doesn't get boring over time, that I don't need a degree or any sort of artistic talent for.
I doubt you'll be able to. The only job I ever held before my current career was refurbishing laptops and I can tell you most of us wanted to kill ourselves. Half the guys were on antidepressants.
What do you mean? There are plenty of jobs in health care alone that don’t require extensive training at all. They don’t get boring since you meet new people every day and it is meaningful work, which in turn is a big part of why people are satisfied with their jobs.
Edit: can the downvoters at least explain why they are downvoting? What I wrote is 100% true, unless I am missing something big here. So please enlighten me why you feel the need to downvote something so obviously true.
Doctors need an M.D. Nurse is a 4 year degree. What can you do in healthcare other than janitorial work without a degree?
Do you really think doctors and nurses are the only people who work at a hospital or in healthcare in general? Even in a hospital doctors and nurses are about half of all personnel. People need daily care, need food, need someone to help them get from one place to another, like when they need to get medical exams.
Outside of a hospital there are plenty of jobs that bring you into contact with people that don’t need an extensive degree. Maybe a couple months of training.
Those are not jobs that would give me any fulfillment whatsoever. What are the complex technical problems to solve in feeding someone? In moving them around? It's exactly the same as factory assembly line work. A monotonous grind with no end in sight, nothing gets "done" because there's a bunch more of the same every day until you retire.
I'm psychologically incapable of doing these types of jobs. Yes I'm medicated and no it doesn't help too much. I have crippling ADHD. I've done factory work before and like I said, it makes me want to off myself. This was the type of job we were supposed to let robots handle, not the ones where we actually get to use our brains.
I also don't see "bring you into contact with people" as a positive for a job in any way. I've found that any time I have to work with customers, they can be absolutely annoying idiots. Just hanging out with people I actually like is a completely different proposition. It's just that when people need something, they rarely know what they need and you have the options of either making them angry by suggesting they're wrong, or making them angry by letting them be wrong. To be clear, I don't consider myself immune to this. See me walk into an automotive paint store or a doctor's office and my questions and ideas are probably very stupid. But I make up for it by not arguing when I'm being corrected by the person that actually knows what they're doing.
That was not the question you asked. Health care is only one of the options. Go ask an LLM for some more ideas that are more to your liking if you don’t have the imagination yourself.
It was. I literally said challenging. I can only do jobs that use the brain, because otherwise I'll want to kill myself. These jobs no longer exist at the entry level in most fields. I don't think we'll even have junior doctors or lawyers for long, let alone engineers and such.
Like I said, I have a job already, but many others like me will have to work jobs they hate for the rest of their lives. I can't be the only one who feels existential dread at factory labour type jobs (which includes the ones you described in healthcare, I don't see them being significantly different from working in an Amazon warehouse once you've been doing it long enough to be desensitised to the whole "at least I'm helping people" thing which just isn't enough eventually).
So that's what you were sort of cheering for.
I answered:
Doctors need an M.D. Nurse is a 4 year degree. What can you do in healthcare other than janitorial work without a degree?
Also: quit being so dramatic. If you don’t even want to try you will fail for sure.
And you suggested... Janitorial work.
I've tried not having an engaging job, that's how I know I wanted to kill myself dude... I've had to do boring work before. Several years in fact. Do you know what effect the words "think less" have on someone who hates being a mindless drone?
Understand that some people just aren't compatible with factory work, or the hospital equivalent of factory work that you suggested. I'm not wired that way. Good for you if you are.
AI is deleting options for these people. Young people growing up right now will all have to flip burgers at mcdonalds or change bedsheets for patients or do other similar menial work while us old fucks hold on at all cost to the jobs people actually want to do and our bosses will refuse to hire junior level employees for us to train. Because useful human brains are expensive to train and untrained ones are less useful than whatever AI can hallucinate up. Education won't solve this either, you need several years on the job to be more useful than an AI agent now and that number keeps going up. And that's going to happen in most fields. Bonus point: eventually even doctors aren't safe. AI can't be liable for patient well-being, but doctors can be made to "see" 100 patients a day using AI. Doctors will be expected to just sign off on everything unless they can see an error immediately. Teachers are also getting pretty redundant. If AI creates the assignments, AI writes the students' answers and then AI grades it... Why do we even need teachers?
Did I? These are important jobs that are much more meaningful than what you’re doing now. Calling it janitorial work or factory work is not only ignorant but also arrogant and demeaning to those people.
Being a mindless drone is what you are right now working for a company. You’re an AI in fleshy form.
Being stuck in dead-end office jobs working like robots is draining people and society. AI sucks and it is gonna suck for a while, but everyone can adapt, including you. So yes, take a course, learn something new and take charge. Even now you’re asking me for what you should do with the rest of your life. You should be able to figure that out. And if you’re not able, then yes, ask Claude or something. AI is coming, whether you like it or not, so you can either go with it or forever fight an uphill battle and become even more miserable than with these “janitor” jobs of yours.
These are important jobs that are much more meaningful than what you’re doing now
You don't really know what exactly I'm doing now, but that's beside the point. I never said they were unimportant, I said there's not enough challenge to keep my brain occupied. I have pretty severe ADHD. If I don't get to do something new and interesting nearly every day, I'll start performing very poorly soon. If the entire planet was dependent on me doing the same exact thing for 8 hours a day and even if I knew it... Well in a few months, we'd all be dead. It wouldn't be unimportant, it would just not be meaningfully challenging for me and I'd get complacent. It's how my brain works and even medication doesn't help a lot. In my first job, I helped displace 2-3 tons of CO2 emissions per day by fixing used laptops slated for landfill, giving them what I'd hope was years of new life. It was great for a while, but it became meaningless for me because it was too easy. 2 years in, I knew that if I had to do it for much longer, I would never recover mentally. I didn't make it to 3 years at that job.
Being a mindless drone is what you are right now working for a company. You’re an AI in fleshy form.
I mean you don't really know my situation, I'm actually the sole employee at my company. I decide when, how much and who to work for. I have a few favorite clients that know to give me tough problems rather than boring, repetitive things.
Being stuck in dead-end office jobs working like robots is draining people and society
Well, some people don't want to be lumberjacks or construction workers. Some prefer knowledge work. Those who get into it just for the money will feel drained, I'm sure. But I know a lot of people like myself who do it purely because they love a good problem to solve. I don't think many of them would function well within normal "meaningful" jobs in the physical world over the long term.
So yes, take a course, learn something new and take charge.
My point was that anything you'd really need to take a course in, won't be hiring new junior employees by the time you're finished. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, writers, interpreters, artists are going to have their numbers thinned HARD. What we'll have left for young people is manual labor, customer service, cleaning, etc. Jobs where employees become useful fairly quickly as far as the learning curve is concerned and people are paid low enough that they're not worth replacing with machines. Tradies will have it safe for now, but I'm anticipating that there will be a LOT more competition for those jobs, particularly electricians because that's less physically demanding and smelly than plumbing or construction. Which means wages in the trades are also going to go down, particularly for fresh employees.
Anyway, as I said before, I already have enough years of experience in my field that I likely still have a future in it. If I wasn't raising a toddler alone as a single father, I could grind myself to early retirement in 10 years doing 200 hours a month, but currently I'm working more like 40 a month as a "mindless drone" and it's enough to get by. It's not me I'm worried about. I'm worried about other people who can't handle doing boring work day in and day out.
You’re a software engineer. You told me in your first comment. So no, I absolutely know those jobs are more meaningful.
You can still do knowledge work without being a mindless fleshy AI. You don’t need to be a fucking lumberjack. Quit it with the straw man arguments. I will ignore them, so you’re wasting your own time writing them.
And it’s good that you’re worried about other people, but the arguments you make to get there are utter BS. People can and will adapt and there will not just be lumberjacks and electricians. Maybe challenge your mind with that before making such comments.
You’re a software engineer. You told me in your first comment. So no, I absolutely know those jobs are more meaningful.
You literally have no idea what projects I've worked on though. Hint: If I'm working on something in special needs care, I'm touching thousands of lives at once, not 10. But you probably equate me with the same people who develop online casinos or targeting systems for Palantir because I have the same job title.
You can still do knowledge work without being a mindless fleshy AI.
You want to call me mindless so much, I think you need to look into yourself. What do YOU do?
I don't know how you can realize that the goal of the companies that own the AI you're praising is the abolishment of human knowledge work altogether. Knowledge workers cost money. Look, even before the AI craze, the goal of nearly every company looking to make a profit has been to make work as boring and efficient as possible. I've been through it. People get reallocated to bite sized responsibility. Only do one thing and do it like a robot.
What kind of jobs do YOU think will exist in the future that are going to require any sort of complex thought? Because I can nearly guarantee that eventually, the doctors in your hospital will be robots, but the bedpan changers will be human. Nurses will be there to administer IVs and such, but shouldn't have their own opinions.
And if you're going to say that doctors, nurses, teachers, etc, are safe because those are government jobs not private company jobs... Well, with an aging populace and an already unsustainable pension system, the government's gonna have to start saving money too.
Does it matter that AI can't be held accountable and it makes mistakes a human could spot? No, because it's significantly cheaper than paying a human that needs to pay rent and buy groceries. You just pay one human to take on the liability for the AI that replaced the other 10.
Mate. You called hospital staff janitors and factory workers that don’t use their brain. I think you need to tone it down a bit here.
If you want to know, I’m an MD if it wasn’t obvious and I work with many of the great people you feel the need to insult. I know the work they do with patients and their families. So while no, I don’t know exactly what you do I still think whatever they are doing is much more meaningful than developing software. Even if it has something to do with special needs.
Where am I praising AI? I literally said AI sucks.
Yes, every job will be affected, some more than others. Some sooner than others. Some jobs will remain but will be more efficient using AI. The aging population so far has only meant more work, not less, even though we already use AI.
Mate. You called hospital staff janitors and factory workers that don’t use their brain. I think you need to tone it down a bit here.
I'm saying that's all that will be left soon. Paying staff that actually needs to use their brains is expensive and inefficient. The routine bits will remain, those are harder to automate and you can pay staff less for doing boring things.
But also I said that because of my severe ADHD, I can't do boring stuff like that. There need to be problems and I need to come up with solutions, and things need to be done. Like if there's no visible progress happening towards the end of something, I can't stay motivated. Since patients need help every single day, something like feeding them is completely mind-numbing to me since I can't "win" or "beat" it. It's not meaningless, but it's not something I'm mentally capable of staying motivated on. Get me? Like I said, my current line of work is basically the only thing I can do that keeps me motivated by being challenging enough, without requiring a degree.
If you want to know, I’m an MD if it wasn’t obvious
Explains the god complex lol.
I could MAYBE stay motivated as an MD, hopefully that wouldn't get too boring for me. However, I could never finish the education I'd have to go through. I can't spend 7 years memorizing stuff, I'll last maybe one semester.
You said in an earlier comment something about people like me existing in olden times before we had computers. Yes, that's true. Back in the caveman days, someone like me would probably have been a hunter. Later on, a soldier on the front lines. Something where there's a chance of dying at any moment, to add at least some excitement. But I don't really want to be a soldier.
I know the work they do with patients and their families. So while no, I don’t know exactly what you do I still think whatever they are doing is much more meaningful than developing software. Even if it has something to do with special needs.
It's just a couple of patients and their families at a time though. Like I said, my projects affect thousands at a time usually, at a minimum. But that one was just an example, many of my other projects have been in much less meaningful areas of course. I'm just pointing out that the people writing software that you doctors use, usually touch thousands if not millions of lives, but you seem to think their work is meaningless. I'm also personally responsible for saving a few thousand therapists (PT, OT, SLP) and therapy assistants across the US about 10-30 minutes a day on filling out notes by improving their existing EMR system significantly (it was not great, I can tell you that). Try calculating the impact of that on human lives improved in the long term if every one of those providers can see one more patient per day for an example. How many people might get an initial eval appointment a few days earlier to get started managing their pain since the clinic was able to fit in 5 more patients per day? Could be hundreds, maybe thousands of people a year. Not a single life saved by me, but possibly thousands improved marginally.
I'm just saying it's pretty presumptuous to assume you know how meaningful someone's work is based on their job title. There are doctors out there helping victims of genocide in Gaza, and there are doctors doing Mar-A-Lago surgeries for rich Trump sycophants. There are software engineers writing medical software and software engineers creating online casinos, surveillance systems, etc.
I also literally never said that those people's (that you're talking about) jobs aren't meaningful to them, or to the people they interact with. I'm saying I personally can't find meaning in a job that 1) someone else could also easily do, 2) doesn't challenge me every single day, 3) is a monotonous grind.
Where am I praising AI? I literally said AI sucks.
You were literally saying it's great that people are losing well-paid jobs:
Good, let ‘em ruin themselves. We need the people in healthcare and education anyway.
Another thing to consider: When there are 500 applicants for 10 positions at your hospital, they're going to fire some of the existing staff because they're paid too much and the new people can be paid minimum wage.
After talking to you, I've realized why people say doctors develop a god complex. One day when you're signing off on 300 treatments a day that AI conjured up while barely having time to skim patients' histories because of horrible KPIs, you'll realize what I mean when I say knowledge work is being destroyed.
LOL god complex? You’re the one calling people factory workers and janitors and telling me how much better you are than them because your software “touches people” whatever that may be. I’ve been telling you from the start to stop being so arrogant and that you’re not as special as you think. Might as well just say “no u” and be done with it. Even AI could have thought of that.
Also, where have I ever boasted about myself or my job? Please quote me.
It's just a couple of patients and their families at a time though. Like I said, my projects affect thousands at a time usually, at a minimum.
Hmm, you were saying god complex?
You were literally saying it's great that people are losing well-paid jobs.
How is that praising AI in any way, shape or form? You need to challenge yourself cognitively a little more.
Another thing to consider: When there are 500 applicants for 10 positions at your hospital, they're going to fire some of the existing staff because they're paid too much and the new people can be paid minimum wage.
In the US that might happen. I work in a normal country where health care isn’t run by for-profit hedge funds.
LOL god complex? You’re the one calling people factory workers and janitors
And you were calling me a fleshy AI lol.
Mate I'm just saying that the jobs you seem to think are so interesting, are pretty fucking boring. Why did you choose to be a doctor? I can guarantee that the nurses do more work than you do. The janitors that have to wash immobile patients, have even harder jobs. And yet for some reason, you didn't consider that to be an interesting job, despite the fact that it's certainly more personal and meaningful to the patient than yours.
Hmm, you were saying god complex?
I'm just trying to illustrate the point that just because someone isn't directly interacting with patients, doesn't mean their work doesn't affect people. This is that medical worker god complex again. There are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of people whose labor you indirectly depend on to do your job without thinking about it, but since they're elsewhere in the supply chain, you and your coworkers who are visible to the patient, have the only really meaningful jobs. It's this sheer arrogance from you that made me want to point out that other people's jobs can also affect patients' well-being, even if it's indirectly.
How is that praising AI in any way, shape or form? You need to challenge yourself cognitively a little more.
If you can't put two and two together here, I'm not sure it's my intelligence that should be under question.
In the US that might happen. I work in a normal country where health care isn’t run by for-profit hedge funds.
Idk if you've heard about these things called taxpayers, but they tend to not like it when their funds are being misused. Government's always looking out to cut costs. For an example, my country raised the visit fee from 5€ to 20€ on non-PCP visits so fewer people would visit doctors and they could cut down on healthcare costs. Now imagine if they could pay the employees half as much because there are so many candidates available.
Much of the western world is running into more and more government debt. Finland's finance ministry released a statement saying their debt's going to be bigger than their GDP soon. That's considered a pretty bad sign generally. Here in Estonia we're cutting costs instead. Some are even talking about privatizing the healthcare system. It's pretty fucked up. And the biggest cost in healthcare is always salaries, so for healthcare to remain a government affair, those need to be cut soon, for most countries.
And you were calling me a fleshy AI lol.
Yes. In response to your derogatory remarks. How does that make me have a god complex?
Of course being a doctor is more interesting. And within medicine I also chose a specialty that interested me. I didn’t get the one I initially chose, but I did into the one I am doing now, and in the end I’m happy with it.
Point is: you can’t tell if certain jobs are boring because you’ve never tried them. You’ve never even seen what their day is like. So you’re making shitty assumptions based on your shitty prejudice.
If you can't put two and two together here, I'm not sure it's my intelligence that should be under question.
That sounds a lot like something that someone who doesn’t actually have a point would say. So, please humour me.
Idk if you've heard about these things called taxpayers
You start a sentence with that and expect me to read the rest of the gibberish a fleshy AI has written down? Again, showing you’re dumber than the AI that’s about to replace you.
Except healthcare and education are also getting dismantled.
And the companies aren't being taxed.
There are a lot jobs that a computer simply cannot do, because they are not humans. Especially the ones that require human contact and interaction. Until we have a robot that can mimic a human those jobs are safe. The jobs that require you to make calculations or provide input into a computer are most at risk.
And I know the companies are being taxed, that’s why I said let’s tax them.
There are a lot jobs that a computer simply cannot do, because they are not humans.
Yes.
Until we have a robot that can mimic a human those jobs are safe.
No.
You're assuming corporations will wait until the robots are capable of replacing humans before replacing the humans with robots.
There’s still rules and shit. Maybe not in the US, but here you can’t simply replace a nurse with a dysfunctional robot. You need to prove it works.
I wonder what country's workforce the MIT expert was talking about when he warned or AI replacing jobs.
You're right though, they're not replacing nurses with AI. They're just eliminating the positions, forcing those who are left to pick up the extra work, and closing rural hospitals.
Nowhere does he or the article mention a country and “Gen Z” sounds like a pretty broad term, don’t you think? There are more places in the world besides the US.
And anyway, I’m not talking to him, I’m talking to you. And since AI exists outside the US as much as it does in the US, what I said applies to the entire world.
Okay, that's great for everyone outside the US who aren't going to be losing their jobs to AI.
Not sure if that's much of a consolation to the literally millions of people in the US who are losing their jobs, or unable to even enter into the workforce.
No need to be so fatalistic. They can still do the more meaningful jobs where they work for people instead of a company.
Can you name 5 jobs where human contact is strictly necessary and I'll see if I can explain how AI will replace those people anyway?
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Social worker
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Psychotherapist
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Teacher
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Nurse
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Lawyer
Bonus: Diplomat
Uh the first two mostly just talk to people. Definitely getting replaced by a chatbot soon.
Teachers already use AI to create lesson plans and grade tests. There's a huge push to use even more AI in schools. The human element of having a teacher present is valuable, but unfortunately not easily measurable in a short term study so I'm fairly sure teaching jobs will be axed. I mean you don't have to get rid or every teacher, just increase class size 4x and you can already get rid of 75%.
Nurses, like I've mentioned before, will be there just to do the physical tasks. IVs, shots, etc. AI will decide what painkillers to administer, etc. Then nurses can be paid half as much and you'll need half as many. Automate the meaningful part of the job, leave the easily trainable.
Lawyers are already using AI en masse. It's resulting in loads of crap, but it won't for much longer. Just need appropriate MCPs to validate citations. The issue at present is using a regular chat interface target than a tailored agent.
Diplomats (and similarly, CEOs) indeed can not be replaced. Those jobs require consuming alcohol with other parties at the negotiating table, which AI can't do.
For most jobs, AI will just automate the thinking and decision making parts. Someone else needs to sign off and/or do the physical parts, but that means you can lay off most of the workforce and reduce the remaining part's pay since the job is streamlined and unemployment is high.
Guys, I found Elon's lemmy account
i dont think tech can suddenly switch to education/bio as easily, because you will have to go through school all over again. the vice versa might different though. other than nursing other job markets are not as available, and usually geared towards woman , as they get a large leg up in the universities through many initiatives. the cost is also more expensive assuming a person in tech decides to try to get into bio, as a post-bacc.
tech was the only good way to make a living outside of most other stem fields, which has poor prospects in thier industries.
Do you have any examples and proof about how women are “getting a leg up in the universities”?
Point is: sulking never helped anyone. Take control of your life.
They don’t care. That’s not this quarter.
A big, giant "no shit" moment.
Where have we seen that before? The computerisation of companies and governments in the 90s? As I recall the most junior entry level jobs went causing massive skill development problems and shortages of trained staff to fill vacancies that went on for years.
The rich hedonistic elites do not care for their lives are too short and too fast.
If all options to escape judgement are exhausted, they will just leave the server.
The lost geenration that was denied a place in society should use their skills to create a new society without them
That would require the dissolution of borders which is difficult in a world with an overarchjng narrative of anti-immigration.
Easier to expect multiple states fracturing and taking whoever wants to follow them as opposed to the citizenry finding home elsewhere.
No shit? I guess because it’s not coming from us „luddites“ it‘s suddenly worth paying attention to.
But how will it effect next quarter?
AI has many glaring fundamental flaws that there has yet to be any determined solutions to.
New technology isn't adopted when its good and ready to be. Its adopted when the bourgeoisie who have all the money, and no brains, think it's ready to save/make them money.
LLMs cannot do anything importing a library or a google search couldn't already do better.
Googles first results page is all paid for. LLMs with search tools crush Google. I use Kagi since Google has become useless.
I used "google" as a generic term for internet search, I use DuckDuckGo with an AI slop blacklist.
Which blacklist please?
I too use Kagi. Could never go back to Google. It saves me a ton of time each day and I gladly pay for it. Can't recommend it enough!
That generation began as quite conservative. It is going to be real fun watching their brains get scrambled and refried. We have to be ready to catch them when they fall.
Don't worry. They'll figure smth out. Probably some kind of pay-to-work scheme, like a reverse internship
go figure
As well AI, even by automated agents and the best models so far, cannot reach the ethical and quality match of a human in terms of being limited by the input it receives. Sure it can gather some of the finest research and paths towards solving a problem quickly. However, the value of the input and outputs are predictions that sometimes do not match the quality needed for well-being. Whatever the size of the model and memory available, it is a failure to think that it will keep refining to a point of perfection. It is a matter of some probability, and every case is based on the limits of its inputs. Thereby I treat it as a tool that expands my abilities rather than a business focus to focus on profit and making it an ability that replaces quality. You cannot replace quality for speed of quantity in processing and calculation. For instance, processes in programming schools allow for quality, now being abandoned for automated checks which in themselves are the wrong way to look at things. Someone said you cannot automate quality. Oh how I wish I could find work to make sure development processes are adjusted for AI as a tool, and its automation reaches the needs of people, designers, and engineers rather than the whims of a business role.
AKA "The great corporate filter of the 21st century".