He's a literal terrorist
1d 15h ago by lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/Stamets in tenforward from lemmy.dbzer0.com
All true.
But Gates McFadden is a stone cold hottie who would go on to bang a fucking ghost.
You don't replace talent like that.
It was the hairstyle they gave Diana Muldaur that made her unapproachable.
I'm pretty sure nobody wanted to watch Pulaski get down with a ghost looking like a 1980's public school teacher.
100% true. That Spaceballs helmet lookin' perm didn't do her any favors.
looking like a 1980’s public school teacher.
no no... keep going..
Well yeah, but I would absolutely watch everything related to her arguing about having slept with a ghost and trying to figure out what exactly happened, seeing as ghosts would require a lot of evidence
unzips
The grief of her abrupt departure is the real driving force behind Pulaski rejection.
I dunno how to tell ya that queer-coded terrorist is gonna win vs stodgy doctor 9 outta 10 times.
Not surprised a fascistic government would banish a good spy to Terok Nor for being queer.
Wasn't Garrik effectively banished for being on the losing side of an internal power struggle within the Obsidian Order (the Cardassian spy division of the government)?
He was banished because he "betrayed" tain, his mentor and father as well as the head of the cardassian gestapo, in some unspecified way. The people above are just doing the usual, unoriginal take of GARAK GAY because any two smooth talking men without big manly muscles being friends must totally be gay coded. God forbid heterosexual men are allowed to not fit a stereotype.
Yeah, I always assumed, given Garak's very vocal opposition to some of the Cardassian government's actions, that something Tain ordered him to do as a member of the Obsidian Order was his "step too far" that caused his break with Cardassian ideology.
that something Tain ordered him to do as a member of the Obsidian Order was his “step too far” that caused his break with Cardassian ideology.
Thats a wonderful thing about Garak is that I don't think there exists "a step too far". Rather I like to assume that even if it was a heinous request he didn't follow it because it didn't serve his own political motives. What was so interesting about Garak is that he clearly had a formal set of solid guiding principles. However to outsiders like us it looked chaotic and disjointed.
He's not hetero though, he wanted to "obviously have sex with Bashir", the actor said so. And he was in love with Ziyal, so quite obviously bi in some way.
Of course this doesn't take anything away from what you said, just a small correction.
That romance plot with Ziyal was so weird and made me really uncomfortable tbh.
Why?
That age gap. And Ziyal was not played older or more mature.
And he was in love with Ziyal, so quite obviously bi in some way.
bro I saw that lunch date they had together. Ziyal is a straight woman after some gay dick, and he's trying his best to let her down without spelling out how gay he is.
He was TAINted
In that very first scene when he meets Dr. Bashir it’s clear as a bell— and this was my choice—that he was sexually attracted to this good-looking young Starfleet doctor. And although they didn’t follow that up with an explicitly gay character, that ambiguity about Garak remained.
[Laughs] Oh yeah. I broadcast it as strongly as I could. But you know, they never really followed up on it, we never even had a discussion about it. Deep Space Nine was already at right angles to the Star Trek franchise. It was a different kind of Star Trek show. And I think that suddenly to bring on an openly gay alien, who, who was having this relationship with Dr. Bashir. I think that was maybe a bridge too far. I’m guessing at this, but I, but I think that may be it.
I think Ira and the writers loved that it just added to the mystery of the guy. What is he? Who is he? Is he this or is he that? I think it just reinforced what they were already trying to do with the character.
Yeah totally, 100% just shippers reading into it, uh huh.
An insanely well written terrorist.
Was he a terrorist? Spy, sure. Torturer, sure. Assassin, yeah. But terrorist?
Also, the important part is that he was exiled to Terok Nor. He wasn't trustworthy, but he was no longer employed as a spy, torturer or assassin when we meet him. By then he was a tailor who was on the lookout for a way to improve his situation using all the tricks he'd learned from his previous life. I think people loved him because he was a believable character with a lot of depth to him.
Complain about ops title then.
terrorist is when you do bad thing
Why does he have a vagina on his forehead?
To give head.
Was he a terrorist? Spy, sure. Torturer, sure. Assassin, yeah. But terrorist?
Non-terroristically planting a bomb on an innocent diplomat's ship.
Cloak and dagger spy shit.
Terrorism is when you try to harm the populace.
You mean like when he participated in the Cardassian occupation?
Yeah that would count as terrorizing the populace, although terrorist to me is specifically someone outside the ruling government, otherwise they're a brutal occupying army/genocidal government, which to me is worse than terrorist. Kira was a terrorist, for a just cause.
Did Kira try to harm the populace? I feel like most of what she did was more like... blowing up government officials.
It's pretty hard to come up with a consistent definition of terrorist that wouldn't include Garak, I'm just saying.
Yeah, I guess she was trying to terrorize government officials and whatever civilians the Cardassians had there. I think you could call that a populace. Just not the occupied populace.
The Cardassians were bad. But I'm not sure why it's so important for them to be terrorists.
When Stalin and the USSR engineered a famine in Ukraine were they terrorists? They definitely did it. But people usually call it genocide instead of terrorism because the balance of power is top down instead of bottom up. It's just a different word for a different bad thing.
But I’m not sure why it’s so important for them to be terrorists.
I'm not sure why it's so important for them not to be terrorists.
But people usually call it genocide instead of terrorism because the balance of power is top down instead of bottom up.
I don't really want to get into that tangent, but genocide is not exclusively a "top-down" thing. There were independent militias in WWII that hunted down and exterminated Jews in Eastern European villages (some affiliated with Stefan Bandera), they were committing genocide regardless of state backing.
Regardless, Garak was involved in both (at different times in his life) blowing people up as a non-state actor to advance a political agenda, and in harming a wider populace.
To me its important to use words that convey specific meaning. If the meaning of terrorist has changed to something I'm not familiar with, I'd like to know.
I believe you that Garak engaged in non-state-sponsored acts of terrorism. And perhaps the definition of terrorism should include some state sponsored acts, like perhaps KGB-agents roughing up people, or the FBI targeting civil rights groups. Or fucking ICE doing everything they've got going on. Dang language is hard. I think I'm changing my mind.
Was he doing that to create terror, or to kill someone?
To create terror. It was a false flag operation meant to get the Romulans to see the Dominion as a threat to their safety. The fact that the senator happened to be one of the biggest opponents to fighting the Dominion was icing on the cake, removing him was a bonus but not the main reason for doing it.
So, he created terror among the Romulans? They sure didn't seem terrified to me.
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People don't have to be terrified for it to be terrorism
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I don't think we see how they reacted, except that they suddenly decided to enter the war and treat the Dominion as an existential threat, as Garak intended.
So, his assassination was successful, but it wasn't terrorism.
May be an unpopular opinion, but I found Pulaski much more interesting than Crusher. Pulaski brought conflict and dynamic into an at that time kinda sterile interpersonal situation among the characters. She could have developed into such a good foil both for Picard and Data. Also, Pulaski already showed an arc as she became friendlier and more open towards Data over the course of the season while Crusher stayed mostly stale for the rest of the show.
pulaski was more logical, scientific, than bevery, who is very emotional as far as characther goes, and he makes her irrational. lets not get stated with all the wierd epsiodes with her, the candle ghost sex, her own "personal universe(which is most like an episode about psyche).
PULaskis, Doctor seems to mesh well with DATA than crusher with data.
Yeah she was dope.
Yeah but crusher had better hair
Crusher felt likr she had very little to her character. She rarely causes conflicts or takes sides beyond the "responsible physician" or "mom", meanwhile Pulaski felt like she had a level of characterization that Crusher didn't. She's a science officer and a skeptic, a rough around the edges healer who will get involved in your moral dilemma. At the start I disliked her, and at the start of season 3 I wanted her back.
One oozes charisma, mystery, clearly hates the main villain of the show, and arguably saves the entire Federation by tricking the Romulans to join the war. The other, out of nowhere, replaces a turbo hotty everyone loved and acts like they own the place 80% of the time on screen while expecting way to much credit for simply doing their job.
Gee. I wonder why it's no comparison.
acts like they own the place 80% of the time on screen
I mean, they are chief medical officer
Til Bev was considered hot by some.
Who is the main villain of DS9? The cardassians? The lady version of Odo? The space pope Bajoran lady?
it's worth throwing out there that one got a whole show to develop and the other got sent to a starship upstate before most people think their show even got good
absolutely. if the show had kept Pulaski and developed the character she could have become a beloved member of the main cast. imagine the stories we could have gotten about her and data developing a close friendship over years. her routinely calling picard out like everyone did to him in picard s3. but at that time in tng her personality was as present as picard and that just wasnt allowed.
everyone loves faciest space lizard man because we got years of him and dr twink boyfriend being awesome on screen. his character had room to devlop.
Were there puppies on the starship? And ponies?
I actually liked Pulaski. She was basically just a female McCoy. She was a far richer character than Crusher IMHO. Far less likable to be sure.
She just didn't really get enough time to grow and I think they realized she was too much of a Bones-clone
They were literally trying to make her a Bones clone. People need to remember that the first two seasons of Star Trek the next generation had a lot of ups and downs before they really found their footing in the later seasons.
Being a good person doesn't automatically make you an interesting character...
...my child
Oh, you bastard! Got me with this one, what a great character that i cannot stand. Superb acting and writing, all for the worst person on bajor
It’s the same dynamic as with Walter and Skyler White from Breaking Bad. People love the escapist element of coming along for the ride with a bad guy who is on the war path. They don’t love the character who tries to drag them out of their fantasy and back to reality.
At least Breaking Bad had the decency to make you really regret liking Walter as the show went on. That was its real genius: to lure you into temptation and then riddle you with guilt.
I am so glad I quit watching it when I did.
She left after the second season and Doctor Crusher came back. You can keep watching.
I'm pretty sure none of them are in breaking bad!
TNG is my Star Trek of choice. It's an extremely unpopular opinion but I liked Dr. Pulaski a lot more than Dr. Crusher. In fact, Crusher is my least favorite main character in TNG. I think the reason people didn't like Dr. Pulaski was that damned hair style they gave her. It made her stiff and unapproachable.
A review that nobody could hold a candle to. 😏
Noo the hair is great. I think Pulaski was better too. It's just that the vast majority of star trek fans identity with data because of reasons and she's not warm off the bat or geared towards the masculine gaze. She's a top notch doctor but before she's been through the particular experiences that lend to a cold but genuinely helpful empathy. Which would have made for some killer character development had she not been replaced.
I also thought Crusher was blah, and her hair is pretty weird too, NGL, it is so 80s in its own way.
AH but my dear friend, who told a better story?
Bran the broken?
I think a good part of it was how the character came to be outside of the show.
Also I really hate that the pronounced data as data
Also I really hate that the pronounced data as data
One is his name, the other is not. Bitch.
Funny how quickly we got attached to data, isn't it?
She probably just read it and didn't hear it pronounced out loud. Or shes used to saying it that way as a formally trained scientist from the future.
Everybody loves a good redemption story...
How can you stay mad at a face like that? Also, nobody disrespects my boy, Data.
put me in sickbay and give me a choice of Pulaski / crusher / holodoc - Pulaski ever fuckin time.
put me in sickbay and give me a choice of Pulaski / crusher / holodoc - Pulaski ever fuckin time.
IDK, Picard went FAAAAR away to avoid having her replace his heart, and ended up with her anyway.
I'll take my chances with the holodoc
Picard just didn't want the rest of the crew knowing that he had a mechanical heart. It was pure fucking vanity.
The reason she ended up doing it anyway is because she was the only one who was expert enough to actually fix his heart. They had to warp 9 her ass to where he was being worked on and almost had to leave Geordie in the hands a bunch of wackadoo morons with an inferiority complex in order to get her there in time.
They had to warp 9 her ass to where he was being worked on and almost had to leave Geordie in the hands a bunch of wackadoo morons with an inferiority complex in order to get her there in time.
oh shit I forgot that was the Pakled episode. Rofl.
Picard just didn’t want the rest of the crew knowing that he had a mechanical heart. It was pure fucking vanity.
good point
IDK, Picard went FAAAAR away to avoid having her replace his heart, and ended up with her anyway.
picard's kinda a wuss so...
My guy got where he was by fighting naussicans in bars over Dom jot.
you could say he phasered around and found out.
still kinda a wuss.
I'll take your notes on bravery once you get stabbed in the heart in a barfight, thanks
pfft I'll take notes on your intelligence when you can sort out fictional characters from reality, thanks.
she tried to have Data dismantled and she was unlikable about it
That wasn't her. That was also a guy not a woman. The only woman in that particular story was the judge who is determining whether or not data was a sentient being and could refuse to go with that guy.
yes, it was her.
she supported that prick and urged for Data to be dissembled. perhaps she later had a change of heart, but that doesnt mean i trust her.
One character had several seasons to explore concepts like loyalty to the wrong people, warcrimes, PTSD, regrets. Made the character deep and interesting.
The other character had a handful of episodes to explore prejudice, and stubborn preconceptions, which made the character interesting... But the conflict was essentially resolved after and she only was around for one season.
I sometimes forget Dr Pelauski is even a thing, and then I watch a season two episode and I'm like "oh right!"
It's almost as if people can handle complex characters!
But no. It can't be. That's a stupid though.
Maybe for most ST fans it is because one of the characters was well-written and the other one was garbage.
The problem with the writing on Pulaski's character was that they were reaching for a gruff and blunt demeanor similar to Bones from the original Star Trek. They failed spectacular at that. And I think the only reason that Pulaski has the limited fandom that she does is because Muldaur is an incredible actress.
Pulaski is such a dick.
POLAski, dint get a fair chance, they just had her for 1 season only. i think shes more competent than beverly, but because mcfadden was doing something behind the scenes to get herself back on the show, and have it center her later on.
The woman of course.
Garak took care of her before the season was even over.
Waiting for Captain Janeway to enter the chat...