Every time...
4d 6h ago by piefed.ca/u/MyBrainHurts in politicalmemes from media.piefed.ca
If we can't be bothered to vote in the primaries, wjy would anyone believe us that a progressive candidate would somehow lure millions more to vote?
As I know the comments will be, uhhh, fun, I've turned off reply notifications.
Progressive here. I vote in every primary and try to rally support for the most progressive in my coalition. Come November, I vote against fascists which means voting for Democrats because they're obviously better in every way.
If you don't vote or vote third party, congratulations, it means you were duped by right-wing propaganda or don't understand how our election system works and the inevitable binary outcome that comes with FPTP and whole you didn't give fascists +2, you gave them +1.
This.
Not voting or voting for a third party hands a win to people you don't want winning. The system is not fair, at all -- but that doesn't mean we should operate in a way we know will lead to a bad outcome. We have plenty of evidence that third parties in the US don't really make a dent, but they do sway elections (and generally not how you want). The rest is idealism.
It's also a good example of why single-issue voting means you'll almost always get more collateral damage, even if you get representation you want on that specific issue.
Trouble is, sometimes voting for either of the two major parties hands a vote to people whom you don't want winning, and you know it will lead to a bad outcome: The march toward some flavor of authoritarianism has been obvious for decades. One major party welcomes it, and the other major party doesn't not welcome it. While the system isn't fair, neither is life, and sometimes the system itself is so flawed that it falls apart even if you play by its unfair rules.
So what was the plan? Democrats win every election forever and ever, amen? The party was cooperating with the Republicans, actively or passively, to put the pieces of an authoritarian system into place. Was that supposed to be fine because Democrats would always be in control of the machinery of repression? Despite the long history of U.S. voters ping-ponging between parties?
Em dash, AI profile pic... Hmmm...
Looks like a double dash -- to me, not M
Fair enough, I assumed LLMs used the markdown double dash for their em dash, mixed with the AI profile pic, and general bad taste of a slop comment, I judged too quickly.
There are (rare though they may be) people like me who actually know the ALT code for em-dash by heart and have used it for years long before AI. Thanks to people now just assuming I've switched to double-dashes mostly.
The compose key exists, too (and wincompose for Windows users) — makes it easy to use. And all sorts of other symbols like ¿Por qué no los dos? and I can uſe the old long-'s' character eaſily… (and that's a real ellipsis)
And Mac has alt - for –, and shift alt - for —. We use the English (Macintosh) keyboard layout on our Linux boxen, so we've got that too!
Holy shit... I had no clue that wincompose exists. For years, I've wanted exactly this. I'm so glad that someone had the same idea, skill, and time to create this. Thank you for sharing!
<3 <3 <3 The only symbol I've wanted that apparently doesn't have a sequence is for pi. And I know you can add sequences in Linux, but haven't been bothered to figure out if/how with wincompose. heh.
Have fun! Oh, and one bit that took me a long time to find but I use all the time; ① - numbers in circles, a rare three-character sequence - parentheses surrounding a number i.e. (1) :) (numbers ① through ㊿ exist)
Nice. Thanks!
You're welcome to respond to the "slop comment" if you can actually come up with something substantive. Otherwise, it's not a good look.
What is there to reply to? This conversation has been had a million times here, mixed with what I assumed was an em dash and an AI profile pic, sorry if it's 'not a good look' to call out the slop.
What slop? You think a nearly 3-year old account is AI generated?
Just because you've never seen an em-dash before AI doesn't mean that em-dash = AI. And btw, I never even used one.
The slop is the comment parroting the same trite conversation that's been had over and over about lesser evils voting. Might not be AI slop, but I didn't put it past you when I saw the pfp. If all you have to say at this point in time is about you're vote blue no matter who strategy, your comment is slop, and I'm done explaining this.
You literally had a whole thread about AI slop that wasn't there and now you're trying to save face by changing your own goalposts.
Good chat.
It is really sad you think you are right
You should try arguments next time
I am not prepared for the olympics level mental gymnastics necessary to explain participating in the US election system.
I am not prepared
Don't worry. We know.
I can't remember who the fuck all is who in the first place, aside from the obvious culprits like Turnip.
Nominal aphasia sucks yo, how do people even have memory banks to remember all the politicians they've probably never met in the first place?
Well isn't that the beauty of it? "Vote blue no matter who."
It is easy to remember, you don't need names or complicated things like policies and stances....
No, that's not the beauty of it at all. In fact, I find it rather ugly, ignorant, and damn near caveman thinking style.
If I was to vote, it wouldn't be on a simple color, it would be on each candidates' values and goals. Sadly I can't remember every last candidate, so I do not consider myself a well educated potential voter.
But hey, if folks wanna keep voting on simple colors, well my favorite color is blue. So if it's so simple, why can't I just pick up a blue card, write my name and voter info on it, and just submit that?
Name me one Republican that doesn't support fascism.
Again, I'm piss poor with names of people I've never spoken with in person. I keep seeing bullshit about this dude Pete H whatever the fuck online, but I don't know anything about him, whether it's all just trash memes, whatever his real values are, or what side he's on.
Can you not understand that I'm bad with names, I literally know that, I know I have trouble remembering such things, and make my own best educated decision to like not vote when I can't remember such shit the next day?
All you really need to know is every red candidate is objectively a worse person and worse for America and the world than any blue candidate. That's not to say that the blues are particularly good, but if you have the choice of getting punch in the mouth or shot in the face, you choose to live another day.
I choose to not either get punched in the mouth nor shot in the face.
Sad, that at this rate, if these are the only two options left, then gimme a knife and I'll slit my own throat.
I do not care to live in a world where peace isn't an option, but thanks for laying out the terms of red/blue for me.
A choice to not participate is a choice to get shot in the face and to get others shot in the face as well. If you're okay with that, then that's on you and really tells what you stand for. It's not just a self choice, it's a selfish choice that directly hurts others.
Oh, so you think it's justified to shoot non-voters in the face?
I see your true personality now, you are not of peace, you are for war.
Well done, you've shown me your true colors.
Not at all, I never said anything about any violence being justified. I'm saying that not participating hurts others, not just you. I don't want anyone hurt, but there are two choices in the US general election, and one is always worse than the other for everyone but the wealthy.
Getting shot or punched was a metaphor. The point being that red is bad, blue is less bad, and choosing neither directly benefits the red. So long as there are racists, bigots, and other people that just hate demographics for no reason, the world won't be a place of peace. In all of history it never has been. We can get closer to peace by voting for people that aren't pedophiles and war mongers. Not participating in that effort is a choice you can make, you're and adult, and you have enough of the facts to make a semi informed choice. Nobody can make you, we can just help educate you on the pros and cons of these choices.
Well then you should watch your words, because I quote you directly..
You said.. "A choice to not participate is a choice to get shot in the face"
You're just further showing your true colors.
Do you know what a metaphor is?
I'd rather be the nice stranger on the side of the road helping you change your flat tire than to be thrown into the mix of blind color voting.
Even with that said, I'd still help you change your tire, whether you're red, blue, tan or brown.
That's just the sort of person I am.
And that's great. Ideally there would be more people with that mindset of helping others. As I mentioned this isn't blind color voting. You either support gay and trans rights, or you support Republicans. You support teachers and the poor, or you support Republicans. Take color out if the equation and take voting at its merits like it should be. It just so happens that all of the worst shit is Republican, so it's easy to know who to vote for if you have good ideals, which it sounds like you do.
If you want to help the most people possible, then it behooves you to vote blue, or do some spot research right before heading to the polls, which will ultimate lead you to the same conclusion.
Thank you, seriously thank you 👍
I still don't know how voting actually works, when it happens in my area, when it is, where it is, or how to even properly look all that up without AI slop answers now.
Are you serious? That's not a metaphor, that's a confusing run-on paragraph word salad, possibly AI itself.
I still choose peace over picking colored sides of a coin that both lead to war.
I just want a nice peaceful job helping fix things for people or businesses that don't want to see the world burn down.
Getting metaphorically punched in the mouth or metaphorically getting shot in the face. Neither are actual events, they are metaphors used to illustrate that one side is clearly worse than the other. I never said anyone deserves to get shot in the face. What I said that you quoted is that if you do nothing, you are choosing to support the worst option.
This isn't a colored sides thing. It's bad vs less bad. There is no third choice. If you choose nothing in means you've chosen bad because of the way a two party FPtP voting system works.
Most of us want peace. One way that you can help is voting for the least bad option, because either the bad or least bad is going to take power. There are obviously many other things you can do to help others like volunteering and donating. The most significant act though is helping prevent awful from being in power, because their actions will outweigh any individual efforts you are capable of.
Neither are metaphors for me, I've been abused more than I should say. Mostly punched, partly shot at with jammed guns..
Don't ever doubt someone that sees their life flash before their eyes everytime they sleep and dream, I'm literally not supposed to be alive today.
Oh boy, is your reading comprehension atrocious...
"I don't want to get hurt" isn't a choice and I have to assume you're like six years old if this is seriously the first time you've look at the way world politics work.
I dunno how world politics work at all.
I never have, I don't care to participate in the sport of war, I prefer peace.
But, what did you just say?
'I don't want to get hurt isn't a choice'?
What the fuck was that, you promoting violence?
I dunno how world politics work at all.
You should probably just stay out of the conversation then and educate yourself.
Well thank you too, I'm actually here attempting to learn right now.
Like, do you really go to vote with the caveman mind of voting for color red/blue? You might as well be voting for tan/brown, same fucking difference, blind voting.
This is the most insane argument I've ever heard. Write them down!
What kind of ballot are you using that is just photos and voices?
It's an open-book test. You don't have to memorize anything. Everyone else has this figured out.
You're giving excuses that make no sense. No one is saying to vote a straight party ticket. Do your research, take notes on the candidates, go vote. Why are you inventing this memorization nonsense?
You'll find that, while each candidate can have positions that you agree with and that you don't, but you probably have a pretty good idea which issues matter most to you, so you can focus on those issues. If they say things you agree with about things you care about, and they don't seem like liars, vote for them. You'll probably find one party's platform aligns with your preferences, and you only need to keep track of the ones not in that party if you really want to memorize the candidates. Or, find an organization you agree with and start from their recommendations.
But just bring your notes to vote, if you're allowed. My state is 100% mail-in voting, so I can fill out the ballot as I research. How many candidates are in your elections that is causing you to panic like this?
How many candidates? How the fuck am I supposed to know?
I'm from Mississippi, and literally signed up for our Congressman Mike Ezell, he's literally too busy patting himself on the back to bother with voters opinions..
"I was honored to join Admiral Lunday, the Austal USA team, and our Coast Guard partners in Mobile this week for the keel laying of the USCGC Pickering, the first Heritage-class Offshore Patrol Cutter to be built at Austal. A keel laying is more than a shipyard ceremony — it marks the beginning of a vessel that will help defend our nation, protect our waters, and support Coast Guard missions for decades to come."
Don't get me wrong, it's good to keep the wildlife habitat sustainable, but how the fuck am I supposed to answer how many candidates we have? Beyond Mike Ezell and Tate Reeves, I don't know who is running for what..
Edit: Mobile is in Alabama, not Mississippi
Apparently Ezell is more for war I guess 🤷
There should be a free voters guide that gets mailed to all registered voters, and is available at the library.
Oh cool, that sounds fun. Ever been to South Mississippi?
Guess not, as our library literally kicked like ~200 people out of the voting line for the 2016 elections..
Ballotpedia. Doesn't do local elections everywhere but still.
I've been to the Mississippi League of Women Voters website. Vote 411. Maybe stop bitching and actually try.
Oh, so Vote 411 was actually a link? Well you coulda saved me digging through AI slop and just posted the link https://www.vote411.org/
Anyways, that site is useless for giving a list of the potential candidates or anything, it can't even name our Secretary of State. Matter of fact it doesn't give any names at all.
I searched further and ran across this site. Seems perfectly legit and all, but the goddamn site says my literal registered home address cannot be found.
https://myelectionday.sos.state.ms.us/VoterOutreach/Pages/VOSearch.aspx
Isn't the internet/AI slop wonderful?
I'm so glad that experienced voters are like just go google it, fucking useless.
Are you capable of wiping your own ass? Honest question. Cause it seems like you are too incompetent to manage anything.
Vote 411 gives you literally everything you need. You don't even try.
They're on the ballot, that's not secret information, you literally just have to google it
Okay, I've been searching, and found this site..
https://myelectionday.sos.state.ms.us/VoterOutreach/Pages/VOSearch.aspx
"The address you entered cannot be found"
My literal home address. Cannot be found..!?
Yes I've checked other sites such as https://vote411.gov/, I get squat, no list of candidates or anything.
Or not. Not Google anyways...
It your search engine of choice, holy shit, you've spent more time coming up with idiotic excuses to not do something than the time it would take to have done it
Name me one search engine that isn't tainted and slap full of AI slop for answers anymore. My goto is DuckDuckGo, and even they've done incorporated AI now. ☹️
Is it that hard to understand, especially in these times, why I'd prefer to ask questions and hopefully get a few answers from actual humans, beyond 'jUsT goOgLE iT'...?
That is the answer though unless you want to tell random internet strangers where you live.
Election systems are run locally so we can't even really direct you to what type of local office to contract without knowing that
Oh, I've made some progress, I figured out the error it was having.
Apparently, in this super high-tech year of 2026, websites don't recognize the word Road in an address, it absolutely has to be abbreviated to RD.
How fucking stupid is that? AI datacenters eating up all the RAM and storage, yet they still gotta force trimming two letters off of a common word.. 🤦♂️
You're not listening to the answers though, only making more idiotic excuses.
Oh, I was listening to the answers alright, I just kept hitting brick walls on my search. So I'm gonna copy/paste a comment I left earlier to another commenter to explain my progress...
"Oh, I've made some progress, I figured out the error it was having.
Apparently, in this super high-tech year of 2026, websites don't recognize the word Road in an address, it absolutely has to be abbreviated to RD.
How fucking stupid is that? AI datacenters eating up all the RAM and storage, yet they still gotta force trimming two letters off of a common word.. 🤦♂️"
Road vs RD, like seriously what in the actual fuck? I shouldn't have to debug websites to figure out how to type a fucking address, it's 2026, they should fucking know by now that Road=RD
This site says my literal home address cannot be found..
https://myelectionday.sos.state.ms.us/VoterOutreach/Pages/VOSearch.aspx
And yes, I'm checking other sites as well, but any which way I go, I'm getting either errors or nothing.
So what am I supposed to do, just vote blue down the line?
Well, I don't know there, friend, do you want to vote for fascists, or do you want to vote for the non-fascists?
Aight, toss me a list of who is running for what office in Mississippi, cuz I'm subscribed to our congressman and still haven't gotten such a list.
There aren't photos on the ballot...
You can write shit down and bring it with you.
I've gotten more down votes saying exactly this.
In 2020 Biden won with 81.3 million votes. In 2024 Trump won with 77.3 million votes. All we had to do to avoid the mess we are in is turn out with the same "enthusiasm" we had for Biden in 2020.
It's the job of a politician to generate that enthusiasm.
It's the job of my dentist to encourage responsible dental hygiene. But if I don't brush, it's my teeth that rot.
Sorry, but that logic just doesn't work at the population level.
A large group of people isn't going to change if you keep telling them "do better". You have to work with their natural interests and responses. If a politician manages to motivate people, people will vote for them. If they don't, people won't.
I guess the people's teeth will just all fall out then. Too bad the dentist didn't motivate us to brush enough.
Too bad it's seemingly impossible to get a Democratic candidate who anyone actually wants. But sure, keep telling people it's their fault. Worked wonders in '24!
What, Kamala had the agency to change her stance on Israel, which the Democratic campaign knew was a dealbreaker? Sorry, it's an ironclad law of the universe that's not possible. Guess you have to continue going to the dentist who keeps making you gargle literal shit.
So because Kamela didn't change her stance on genocide, you now have Trump who has the exact same stance on genocide, and wants to start 8 wars and a civil war as well.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Even a dentist that makes you gargle shit is better than the dentist that makes you gargle shit and shoots you in the head afterwards.
I sure as hell haven't played myself, considering I'm not an American!
But you've accidentally put it exactly right:
So because Kamela didn't change her stance on genocide, you now have Trump who has the exact same stance on genocide, and wants to start 8 wars and a civil war as well.
Yes, because Kamala didn't change her stance on genocide, you now have Trump who has the exact same stance on genocide, and wants to start 8 wars and a civil war as well.
One person had the chance to change it all, but it was more important to ensure that Gaza continues to be erased.
You could have convinced millions of people to vote, or to change their vote, and you'd still have to convince many more to change the result. Or you could convince one single person, and it would have changed the result. Which is more realistic?
It's simply amazing how Kamala Harris cared so much about killing brown people that it mattered more than winning the election.
I would argue that it is the civic duty of a citizen to vote. Enthusiasm is irrelevant.
We simply know that people are more likely to vote when they are enthusiastic. You can either keep telling people "do better" and keep losing, or you can accept human nature and use it to your advantage by running a candidate that people actually want.
People should have been planty enthusiastic to get anyone but Trump as President, but that shows how strong the misinformation machine is.
Personally I've always favored a system like Australia where voting is compulsory and punished with a small fine. That filters out the principled from the merely lazy.
No, it simply shows that the Dem strategy of "putting up a turd that doesn't stink quite as bad as the other one" isn't enough to actually win when it matters.
We are back to the original point that people are so determined to blame Democrats that they sabotage their own efforts to get something better.
Ah, I see, we are back to absolving Democrats of any agency or responsibility.
Why is it Democrats responsibility to get progressives to vote in primaries? If you don't vote, politicians don't care about your opinions.
And if you don't speak to voters, voters don't care about politicians. Guess which one matters more?
Let's not act like the Democratic primary process has been going well for the last elections - look how they treated Bernie, and there wasn't even a primary for Harris - after she was quite unpopular in the previous primaries!
That's not to mention that the Biden campaign before 2020 gave many signals that he'd be a one-term president. They said "we have to rally to defeat Trump", and then just didn't care to build up an alternative to Biden since they knew people would have to rally behind whoever they put up, since anyone would be better than Trump!
Yes, but they do that only when they want you to vote. Imagine making it compulsory to vote, and then also suppressing your ability to vote... Then the fine is just a new tax and you still don't get to vote.
I fucking loathe this mindset. I mean I hate it with such a passion. Cuz all you're saying is you don't care if you lose. You don't care if the worst happens to all of us you'd rather not change your ways. Cause guess what? You're wrong.
You can say that until the cows come home but people turn out to vote when they're spoken to and engaged. Thinking anything else means you're okay with losing. And I resent the fuck out of my life being put in jeopardy because some of you are okay with losing.
I agree with this, but that doesn't convince people to actually turn out and vote.
A politician needs to be able to generate enthusiasm to get people to vote
You're not wrong, but they sure didn't make it easy.
I agree with this strategy but I think you have to also concede that anti-electoralists have some good arguments too. Since voting is relatively low investment, my personal view is that it's best to pursue a variety of strategies. But for the vast majority of Americans for whom voting is their only political activity, I would challenge them to figure out what the next step is in becoming a more effective political actor. Frankly, there are a variety of actions a person can take that are way more impactful than voting. And this moment demands more from us than passive participation.
Since voting is relatively low investment, my personal view is that it's best to pursue a variety of strategies.
That's why I disagree with anti-electoralists. They're certainly right that it's not sufficient, but there's no benefit whatsoever to not voting anyway. It's one small part of a broader course of action, but it's still a part.
Careful, people who have never met you will now tell you that you're not actually a progressive, but a dirty liberal
This. And if one of the lesser progressive or AIPAC funded candidates get the nomination, I will speak out against their problematic policy positions and try to get them to move away from these views right up until election day (at which time I will go into the voting booth, hold my nose, suppress my gag reflex, and vote for whoever the D choice is (who will always be better than the R choice, at least at the state and national level).
Stockholm syndrome at its finest.
Americans look at the most broken system ever, and you'd think they would come up with ways of fixing it, but instead, they double down on this logic of "lesser evil", and fool themselves into believing that's "good".
It is not.
Choosing the lesser evil means the end result is still evil, it just takes longer.
But sure, disregard all evidence waves arms around that shows the current system is beyond redemption, and line up for the national pastime of "Pick Your Pedo" as a good little boy.
Hit me with those downvotes, I'll ping you when the next presidential election comes around to ask you how your way's been working out.
I think this American is well aware how broken the system is and doesn't support it. They're just trying their best to work with the situation they are given.
And how does non-participation in any way fix the system?
You absolutely can participate in the broken system to prevent the greater evil AND at the same time do your utmost to change and fix it, in order to create better choices.
Not participating means you can try your utmost to change the system, in order to create better choices. But in the meantime you throw vulnerable people under the bus of the greater evil for your protest. Congratulations.
"Non-participation" does not mean inaction, just in case it needs to be said.
You cannot fix the system. If the second time Trump got to power didn't open your eyes, when are you going to call it? When they start undermining trust in elections? Pressure on officials to overturn results? Attacks on the press? Invoking crises to expand executive authority? Politicization of law enforcement? Purging civil servants not loyal to the ruling party? Undermining courts or ignoring judicial rulings? Scapegoating minority groups?
We've seen this script before, yet you still think it's best to play along.
The vulnerable have been exploited for greed and profit for decades now by the billionaires. That noose has never stopped tightening, and you're trying to argue that we may inadvertently scald them when we burn the rope that's strangling them.
What else would you propose they do?
Because doing nothing only helps fascists. And voting third party is basically the same as doing nothing.
Why ask me? Go ask Minnesota.
In 2000, Nader won 1.64% of the popular vote in Florida.
If less than 1% of the Nader voters had voted for Gore instead, Gore would have won Florida, become president, and who knows what timeline we'd be living in today.
If your favorite candidate is polling in single digits ahead of election day, maybe... just maybe... you should consider which of the actually viable candidates you want to win and vote accordingly.
If you vote Democrat just because they were better than Conservatives, congratulations, it means you were duped by the establishment or don’t understand how your election system works and the inevitable binary outcome that comes with always doing the same shit over and over again and believing something will somehow change eventually.
There are literal fascists in office, in part because Dunning-Kruger told you not voting or voting for a no-chance candidate was a good idea.
Or maybe you think posting online is "action" or "protest". In case you haven't noticed, it does jack shit.
I thankfully don't live in US and have been financially protesting USA since the 2nd time Trump was elected. I also don't need your help in learning what protesting means as I have breathed in enough tear gas to learn that lesson myself.
Sure, go vote Democrat. I am sure its their turn to rule anyways so that the capitalis war between the monarchs and the oligarchs can balance itself once again. I am sure they will take care of Trump (or whoever their next chosen prophet is) THIS TIME. They were so helpful last time they were elected doing jack shit for 4 fucking years. Then losing to a fascist clown just after 1 term. You live in this fantasy that these incompetent rich bastards will somehow save you, and it won't be the same shit all over again in another 4 years.
Keep showing Democrats that no matter how disconnected they are from the American public, you will keep voting for them. Why? Because, it is the most important election in the history of America. As if you weren't saying the same shit for however many years now, and as if you won't say the same shit in the future. It will never be time to vote for 3rd parties. God forbid some people have other beliefs then "left of far right" party and want to show their support for candidates who represent themselves better. God forbid you might send them a message and ask for meaningful change by actually showing them that you do not support them.
Keep showing Democrats that no matter how disconnected they are from the American public, you will keep voting for them.
The US has a two-party system. Period. That will not change anytime soon, if ever. And that presents unique challenges that countries with different systems do not have.
I'm not entirely sure from your rebuttal that you actually understand this fact.
I don't disagree that things are fucked up, and I don't disagree that the Dems are a bad party which by and large do not support their constituents. But let me be clear: there is no path outside of voting Democrat that has any chance of success of changing anything in the US. The only path forward is voting for the single opposition party.
What you're saying is: it won't matter anyway. Maybe you're right. I'm also not disagreeing there. But we know from evidence that there is no other option which has any chance. And if the whole house of cards falls -- as it is likely to do -- I'd certainly rather tell my children that I did what I could based on an evidential position, regardless of how futile it may have ended up being.
What I won't do is pretend that a third party vote will help. I won't pretend that not voting will help. Those are the farcical ideas of a naïve idealist.
Its such an American response to be like "you guys don't understand our system" thinking you are so special. I have lived in a multi party system that had the same party winning for 26 years. My fascist dictator was ruling over me way before Trump even knew what politics was. And you know what? We have the exact same arguments about wasting votes if you do not vote for the main opposition party.
I am not saying it does not matter. I am saying that you (and people like you) can't keep doing the same thing and expect shit to change, and then put down people who are actually trying something different for once. You can't keep supporting the status quo and then act all high and mighty because other people are actually sick of watching rich bureaucrats fight over who gets the bigger slice of the pie.
So what's the plan? Are you hoping the Democrats will win every single election until the end of time? Talk about being naive.
I am saying that you (and people like you) can't keep doing the same thing and expect shit to change, and then put down people who are actually trying something different for once.
Not voting or voting third party is not new. It's not "for once". It has been tried again and again in the US, and again and again, the outcomes were as expected: whichever candidate between the two main parties loses more votes to the tactic, loses the election.
Stop pretending it's novel. It isn't, and it always fails. There is nothing virtuous about being shown evidence and denying it. That's called stupidity.
Oh its not new? Tell me, when was the last time that enough of you voted independent /3rd party to win the elections? Oh, it never happened? An independent winning seems like a new thing to me then, for once. "Oh but it's not realistic for independents to win, there will be never enough people voting for them", well then how the fuck do you expect them to win if you do not vote for them, because no one will vote for them. Do you not see this infinite loop that only seem to work out for Democrats and Republicans? Do you not see how they both want to keep things this way and therefore will never change anything meaningful?
You also seem to forget that a 3rd party DID BEAT a US major party before, coming 2nd place. Maybe not good enough for a win, but apparently its possible to beat a major party, when enough people vote for you. Funny how that works out.
You guys keep calling people traitors for voting differently than you, you keep putting not voting and voting for independents in the same bucket. You keep calling people naive and idealist, you keep belittling people's convictions pretending to be a progressive. You say its not realistic to vote outside of Democrats (or Republicans) while ignoring the fact that our reality fucking us all anyways. Go keep being complicit in the system that allowed all this to happen if that's whats going to keep your conscience clean. Or maybe you are just happy as long as the republicans don't win, but then just accept the fact that you are just trying to do the bidding of your democrat daddies instead of pretending to not be happy with them either. I guarantee you will have more success trying to convince people.
Democrats haven't held an unbiased presidential primary since 2008, but go off. Superdelegates will save us.
Indeed.
Polls showed Bernie beating Donald head-to-head. Polls showed Hilary losing to Donald head-to-head.
Heard enough from liberals about “electability.”
Based on the timing of this post, I’d assume they’re talking about the midterms for offices like Senator, Representative, County Commissioners, Sheriff, etc, which to my knowledge don’t use superdelegates, but I’d be interested to learn if I’m wrong.
I vote in every damn primary fuck you
I'm registered as a Democrat to vote in their primaries even though I hate the DNC.
We keep being told that we're not voting in the primaries.
I don't quite believe it. I'm starting to think the primaries are rigged. And this is their excuse -- they get to smugly tell us we're just not showing up to primaries in enough numbers to make a difference. Conveniently puts the blame on us, trying to make us blame ourselves.
The last 2 primaries were a disgrace. You can find a bunch of vocal progressives who didn't vote or voted 3rd part, but the bigger problem has been the establishment completely ignoring trying to get democrats to get off the couch and vote and instead try to court sycophantic far right voters with weird anti-trans rhetoric or pushing class warfare under the guise of deregulation and "small government".
Two?! This goes back to Kucinich not getting airtime when he would've been a viable opponent against Clinton!
We keep being told that we’re not voting in the primaries.
I don’t quite believe it. I’m starting to think the primaries are rigged. And this is their excuse – they get to smugly tell us we’re just not showing up to primaries in enough numbers to make a difference. Conveniently puts the blame on us, trying to make us blame ourselves.
Is all the polling rigged too, from every major pollster, including notably progressive-leaning ones?
The general electorate, including even the narrower subset of the Dem electorate, is just not as progressive as most of us. Even Mamdani barely managed a majority in NYC, which is hardly as conservative as, say, suburbs in Pennsylvania.
Horseshit.
Elected democrats consistently vote against massively popular propositions.
As your own source notes, this is a very recent development
10+ years at minimum, is not "very recent". A majority supported single payer healthcare before 2016.
10+ years at minimum, is not “very recent
Are you fucking kidding me? Did you not read the fucking source linked?
To put the enormity of this change in perspective, consider that 7 years ago, polls showed that when people were told Medicare For All might eliminate private insurance, topline support for the idea typically dropped. Surveys showed anywhere from 37 percent to just 13 percent of Americans said they supported Medicare For All if it involved eliminating private insurance. So these new numbers are a shift of anywhere from 26 to 50 points on that key question in just 7 years.
In February [2016], a Harvard University survey discovered that a majority of 18-to-29-year-olds, did not support capitalism, and preferred socialism instead.
Oh, wow, the demographic least likely to vote. Great. Clearly this will swing the vote.
Did you not read the fucking source linked?
Ironic.
If you had read the source I linked, you would see that it contradicts your point.
Ahh, projection.
Tell me again how Bernie dropping out of the primary and endorsing Hilary lost her the general election.
“Yadda yadda yadda misogyny.”
Or, if you want a more recent example, there’s this progressive who won the democratic NY mayoral primary. Progressives did what we’ve been told to do — disagree during the primary, then vote blue no matter who in the general. Liberal democrats lost their goddamn minds and ran Andrew “Sex Crimes” Cuomo as an Independent spoiler.
Progressives’ biggest mistake was ever believing liberals.
lol what primaries? As I recall last time we were simply handed Kamala, and everyone I know voted for her despite that. But If Biden had stepped away earlier as he originally claimed to intend to, we would have had time for a real primary. And I would have voted in it.
There's an upcoming midterm election. The Democratic primaries are just getting started for it, in fact the primaries for Texas, North Carolina and Arkansas are starting tomorrow.
Other important Democratic primaries, according to a quick Googling:
- March 17: Illinois (competitive Senate primary to succeed retiring Sen. Dick Durbin)
- May 19: Georgia (Senate primary to challenge incumbent Sen. Jon Ossoff) and Kentucky
- June 2: California (crowded, top-two primary for governor)
- June 9: Maine (competitive Senate primary to take on Sen. Susan Collins)
- August 4: Michigan (open Senate and Governor races)
- August 11: Minnesota (Senate primary) and Wisconsin (Governor primary)
So maybe let's get to it. When the election itself comes around you'll have the usual two-party choice of D or R, which isn't really much of a choice. Hold your nose and vote D in that one regardless of anything else, it's the lesser evil. The primaries are where you can express your political desires more freely without handing a win to the Republicans by picking the less-than-optimal choice.
But what if the election is rigged? But what if there are armed squads of killer ICE agents at the polls? But what about if Trump calls martial law and cancels elections even if it doesn't work that way and states can do what they want anyway??? WHAT IF A PLANE CRASHES ON ME ON THE WAY TO VOTE???
Water your tree of liberty, then.
Don't you guys have a second amendment for that?
Guess my head's just been in the sand because I'm not in any of those states. Yes, where there are primaries, let's get to it indeed.
There are primaries everywhere, those were just some of the more prominent ones. Go look up when the ones in your own state are.
Damn right I didn't vote in the last primary!
... because I was fucking homeless!
Can't vote without a permanent mail receiving residence!
My sources say you can in all 50 states by listing a park, shelter, or other place where you spend time as your residence and shelter, church, etc as your mailing address. You should be able to go to a polling location and get a ballot even if you don't receive one in the mail.
Just saying that I think there are options for you next time if you find yourself in the same situation. You are not without some power.
Your sources are broadly wrong.
Before I became homeless... I worked at a nonprofit, assisting the homeless.
Irony aside, no, a park wouldn't work at all, and most shelters actually don't let their 'residents' use it as an address, support or recieve mail for them.
Of those that do, they all nearly all have the barest of minimum effort put in to making sure residents receive their mail in a timely fashion, and its fairly common for them to lose your mail, bar you from obtaining it for arbitrary and petty reasons, if not just outright stealing it.
And spare me your 'you have options' speech.
I did the math, I ran the data, that was my job, I did it better than the government does it.
The PIT is bullshit, multiply that number by about 4, at least, to get an accurate count.
I distinctly remember my horror upon realizing that covid had utterly broken our seasonal trends, entirely. Just straight up needs being unmet.
Which leads into: The shelters were all completely full back in '22.
When cops go and clear a settlement and say they offered access to resources?
What that means is they gave people a phone number, to people who often don't have phones, a number that may or may not still be in service, where if you go through a 30 to 60 minute phone interview, you'll discover that "oh well we can't offer you any help at this time, have you tried this other number?"
... and that was all before Trump slashed roughly 80% of SNAP, Section 8, and grant funding to non-profits serving the homeless, before the Grants Pass decision functionally made being homeless a crime, before the tariffs, before CECOT, ICE invasions, and before ICE/FEMA began building 23 concentration camps, in line with Trump's stated policy, from before he got elected to round 2, to round of the homeless into concentration camps.
In summary, fuck off.
I have PTSD now, thaks for triggering it with yet more useless and wrong advice, you have bo idea how bad things are.
... and I couldn't get to ballot place if I wanted to, because I was crippled, couldn't get a ballot if I managed to get to a polling place, because my ids were all stolen, along with everything but the clothes on my back.
I had to bullshit my way from seedy motel to shelter to seedy motel for 2.5 years before I managed to get an actual, current, proper drivers liscense.
... and I'm the guy who used to design the data systems used to manage helping people do things like that, at scale.
you know, like our last primary.
Well... shit... can't argue with that
Imma head out
What a fucking joke
DNC primaries are nothing more than a livestock auction for donors. Libs will cry a big game about FPTP election systems and our need to overturn CU, but will ignore any of those major systemic contradictions when it happens to affirm their worldview
Imagine if they made the excuses for voters who pretend FPTP doesn't exist, that they make for politicians who pretend FPTP doesn't exist.
Acknowledging the failures of the democratic system is by definition an acknowledgement of the lack of agency in voters
You can't both acknowledge FPTP and deny it as voter disenfranchisement - they are one in the same.
Because the DNC will sue to keep them off the ballot and win, and when constituents sue the DNC for not keeping their promises and the DNC will argue they are are a private entity or something (I forgot the exact argument), and under no obligation to keep their promises, and win. 🤷♀️
Independents can't vote in primaries in my state and many others.
Independents are the majority, 40% of voters, with Rs and Ds at 30% each.
That shouldn't be legal
That should absolutely be legal. Just imagine that a ton of Republicans vote in democratic primaries to mess up the democratic candidate.
I disagree.
One person, one vote... if a person decides they'd rather vote in D than R primary, there's nothing wrong with that? What's the "mess up"?
Rs vote for Ds all of the time, Ds vote for Rs, I vote third party, D, and R, depending on the election.
Locked in a party, there's no reason to vote for anything. Just count the registrants, boom, whoever has the most registrations win.
We should be able to vote how we wish when we wish. This law is WORTHLESS.
It's by state: https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_election_types_by_state
I think semi-closed the way it is implemented in MA is the best. You can request a primary ballot for either party but not both, regardless of what your voter registration says.
It's not just about voting. We need more people RUNNING!
Regardless of your opinion on AOC, this documentary about how she got elected lays out the steps. IMO it's how AOC got elected that is the key to fixing America. Americans need to make that happen every single election. Systematic problems need more than 1 presidential term to reverse after all.
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Independent local grassroots electoral movement. Dedicated to getting/organizing volunteers, signature gathering, door knocking, everything from getting candidates on the ballot to winning in the election.
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Candidate nominations. AOC didn't sign up, her BIL or someone nominated her and the Grassroots Movement approached her to run.
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PRIMARIES. PRIMARIES. PRIMARIES. Target establishment DNCs who clearly have more in common with corporate lobbyists than their own constituents.
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Run the numbers game. Only 1/4 of their candidates won. Democrats should face a primary EVERY SINGLE ELECTION.
What fucking primaries? 🤦♀️
There may be a ring of truth in that, but I'm registered "no party" in my state and therefore CANNOT vote in the primaries. I've considered changing my affiliation to Republican, so I can vote I'm their primaries.
I did, you should too. Could function as useful camouflage someday too.
"What do you mean I'm accused of terrorist sympathizing? I'm a registered Republican, I vote in the primaries, for the love of Pete!" (I gotta work on my chud vernacular, to be sure)
Yeah good point. But I think I may be screwed just from my Lemmy posts alone.
You're not wrong, if any of us become interesting enough there's not really any hiding. But it's not magic either and there are a whooooole lot of disgruntled internet personas for them to monitor. I'm with ya though, I try to limit the details I give while simultaneously aware that it's probably pointless.
I mean you say that, but in the state I live in a progressive candidate is running and getting huge engagement with the largest primary turnout ever I think but certainly in decades. All while the establishment Democrats are fighting hard against him.
Reminds me of Mamdami! Keep fighting!
I vote in primaries, I vote for the more progressive candidate. I've also held my nose for too long voting for the candidate with more money and especially when they are just MAGA lite.
There were primaries?
They are happening right this very minute.
If they put up Gavin Newsom I'm staying home. Additionally I will encourage anyone I know to do the same. I haven't stayed home for a primary since I've been able the vote.
I refuse to vote for another centrist Democrat and I'm tired of acting like the only option is to choose the lesser of two evils.
Do you know what a primary is?
I do. When was there a leftist option?
America is a conservative country, being mad that there are no perfect leftists to vote for is childish. Damage control and pushing the needle away from the right is our only pragmatic option. Anything else is just wishful thinking. The world sucks and there is no quick fix, bitching about that and doing nothing will, unsurprisingly, accomplish nothing. Be realistic, not dogmatic.
America is whatever the population chooses it to be. I'm not looking for a perfect leftist option. I've been voting for the most left candidate since I've been able to vote (primaries, general, midterms, local, school board).
I believe in the electoral/civic process but, if the ratchet has tightened so far to the right then I don't want to keep voting for the center. My position of abstaining from the process, and encouraging others to do the same, is my way of pushing the needle left.
Not touching nor interacting with the needle enables it only to go farther right.
I get it, shit sucks, and everything is broken, but that is just a fucking stupid and masturbatory response to the situation. It’s very self centered and myopic, I’m sorry, man, but you’re not a hero, nobody is, and that is a shit excuse to do nothing while patting yourself on the back like it was something.
Not directed at you just a general statement. If you don’t vote then you’ve quite literally not done anything, and you didn’t do nothing for the sake of others, you did nothing to fulfill your own ego, stop bragging about it.
I respect that, I just disagree. I think my line of reasoning is sound. I'm not pushing people out of political engagement I'm simply saying not to vote for a centrist candidate.
Also, someone would have to understand my comment politically in order to be swayed by my rhetoric. If I'm advocating for left candidates and pointing out why I'm not voting for centrists I think that's a winning strategy.
As long as we agree on two things, I think this conversation has reached its conclusion : 1. That my strategy is to only vote left or stay home. 2. Your strategy is to always vote for the most left leaning candidate even if the party keeps moving right.
If that's not your position let me know.
I'm like 100 sure that major news outlets specifically limit how much they talk about it, hoping people forget to vote.
I vote in the primaries, but for the independent ballot. None on the Dem ballot represent me by sticking too close to the centrist/center-right stances the party has. I can always find several people that speak for me on the independent ballot.
The 2024 Democratic primaries, OP?
How about the 2026 primaries right now?
Yes, not great that the presidential primaries were effectively skipped, but people need to participate in a broad set of elections instead of just being fixated on the presidential race.
Your smaller races are the best shot to shape everything. If folks only bother to show up when a president is up, can't be shocked that the establishment isn't in touch with you.
One does not simply walk into a DNC lair to vote and expect a warm welcome with open arms. Everyone knows that the DNC is corrupt. Progressives need to organise grassroots first, lobby and then work their into the political machinery. This is how the civil rights activists in the 1960s did and modern progressives should learn from them; kinda like how the fascists also learned.
The civil rights movement didnt just organize grass-roots, they essentially held a gun to the head of the democratic party
They actively worked against the DNC in most cases, since they were famously reluctant to embrace it
Yeah, definitely no context to go into with primaries. But I'm glad you're picking the important fights at times like this.
What (presidential) primaries? I haven't had a presidential primary with more than one option since Obama 1, and I was slightly too young to vote. So maybe actually have fucking primaries?
EDIT: yes I vote in all the other primaries I can.
Did you not vote for Bernie against Hillary?
I did. He won my state. And the news completely ignored that.
Since the primaries are held at different times in different states, lots of people don't have an option by the time the presidential primary gets to their state since it's essentially over and all the other candidates have dropped out.
Oh shit, I forgot about that because I was abroad when I voted. Okay, my mistake, they've given me one single primary in my adult life.
Never knew you could vote for primaries, it was explained to us by the adults growing up that primaries are voted by your representatives. When we learned that was a flat out lie the last primaries we could vote in was too late and now we dont even live in USA anymore. Damn
Your vote for a third party without ranked choice voting is a waste of your vote
A vote for someone against RCV is even worse than wasting it.
My district is +13 democrat.
So as someone who actually understands the hideous monstrosity we call the electorial college, I'll vote for whoever I like.
3-4% on an exit poll is more of a change than my vote would have anywhere else.
How do you turn off reply notifications (especially for comments)? It's the one feature I miss from reddit and I thought I lost it for good when I switched!
If you vote in the primaries in some states it’s public which ballot you choose and that is how they know who you vote for! Yay!
Wait we had a primary in 2024? For some reason I don't remember that...
We did, Joe Biden won
Really? I didn't see his name on the ballot.
Yep 2024 Democratic Primaries After he won the primary, he withdrew from the race and a new candidate was elected at the Democratic National Convention, though she was uncontested.
Huh, that did happen. Too bad he hadn't dropped out earlier so we could have seen how the general pop thought about Harris.
Totally agree
If you are not a registered member of a party, you don't get to vote in primaries.
You've learned that it's every time, but you haven't come up with a better strategy than whining about it? Don't worry, the Old Man Yells at Cloud strategy will work next time! I mean, it has to, right?