Vibe Check
8d 6h ago by lemmy.world/u/homesweethomeMrL in politicalmemes@lemmy.ca
That's literally the point. They are trying to goad the Left into screaming Hitler. When we do so, we generally sound hysterical to the centre and independents whom we need.
Donald wins when we're sputtering with rage.
If you've ever been a dick to a younger sibling so they freak out and get in trouble despite technically being in the right, you'll recognise the tactic.
... to the centre and independents whom we need.
kamala harris said the same thing and so did hillary clinton.
Same with Schumer, Kerry and Gore :(
birds of a feather ...
??? Clinton, one of the most unpopular candidates in history, came within a couple hundred thousand votes.
Harris lost running on massive inflation, in the same wave that saw almost every incumbent government thrown out by historic margins and still came within only a couple of points of trump.
I'd also argue Harris was a bit doomed because of how hard we took the bait last time and screamed HITLER at every provocation. The independents and centrists who watched that and endured a bad but relatively normal presidency learned the lesson that the Left exaggerates and that their warnings are without merit. If we'd "kept our powder dry" maybe we could've convinced them the 6th was as bad as it was but, like my younger sister, we just screamed, took the bait and lost despite being right.
Call it the party who cried HITLER.
axois' reporting on the dnc's attempt to suppress the last election's post mortem investigation and the yougov polls of pro-biden/anti-harris voters have shown us that harris lost 10 million votes because of gaza.
these people were disaffected by the system in the same way that it disaffected clinton's voters despite registered democrats outnumbering registered republicans.
so many are disaffected now that there aren't enough 3rd party voters to make up for the difference.
the yougov polls of pro-biden/anti-harris voters have shown us that harris lost 10 million votes because of gaza.
Imagine biting propaganda so hard that in the name of Palestiniansyou actively made things even worse for them and hundreds of thousands if not millions across the world.
I'd love to see the source on this though because 10 million is a wild number. Harris had 6 million fewer votes than Biden, so somehow losing ten million votes on something that wasn't the top election issue seems like an... Interesting claim.
my brother in christ, it's in the american news and by an american source: https://www.axios.com/2026/02/22/dnc-2024-autopsy-harris-gaza
Homeslice, nothing in there says anything about millions of votes, let alone ten million.
The closest you get would be
"the DNC shared with us that their own data also found that policy was, in their words, a 'net-negative' in the 2024 election.
There were many net negative issues, like say, inflation and immigration which rated higher in most polling about voter issues etc.
i regret looking into the exact number because HOLY FUCK it's so much worse that i thought!
i was going off of projections from the yougov/imeu poll suggesting roughly 10 million
since then, the democratic think tank named the catalist report did their own investigation and found that it was around 11 million for gaza and 30 million all together.
you have to be part of a democrat party aligned political annalist group to get the report; but american periodicals named the nation and rolling stone did a tldr of these report and there's a deeper dive within the cook political report.
Buddy, unless I'm missing something it looks like you're must be misreading these, linking to the wrong articles, hoping no one reads them or just making the wild assumption that everyone who didn't vote Harris did so because of Gaza.
The Cook political report deep dive literally doesn't mention Gaza or Israel.
try reading the articles:
... Young voters, on the other hand, took issue with Harris’ perceived silence on Gaza, with a majority of voters in that focus group saying her unwillingness to take a stand affected their decision not to vote. ...
-- Rolling Stone
and i shared the cook political report to show that the disaffection is bigger than most realize it was; not just gaza alone.
Hombre, remember this was your original position:
axois’ reporting on the dnc’s attempt to suppress the last election’s post mortem investigation and the yougov polls of pro-biden/anti-harris voters have shown us that harris lost 10 million votes because of gaza.
If you actually look through the Cook political report, the big issue was men of colour moving to the Right. And if you read the sentences right above the young voters bit in the Rolling Stone article, you'll notice their concerns are not about the perceived silence on Gaza but instead the perception "that Dems cared more about immigrants, trans people and waging war in Ukraine and Gaza than domestic priorities or their daily economic realities." You could sort of maybe disingenuously twist that into Gaza but really, that's clearly about the money being spent for military support instead of economic issues at home.
Again, all of this is far cry from your claim that Gaza cost ten million votes.
the 29% figure isn't hidden in anyway—it's right there on the webpage in plain text. you literally have to scroll past it to miss it:
"29% - Ending Israel’s violence in Gaza"
so either you didn't read the link you're trying to argue about, or you're counting on everyone else not to read it either. which is it? because pretending a number doesn't exist when it's displayed directly on the sources you've asked for is either willful ignorance or straight-up misleading people
Which of your sources has this 29% figure? I read and double checked the rolling stone one albeit on archive.ie so maybe a graphic's not coming through?
Or you meant to send a different source?
this one:
i was going off of projections from the yougov/imeu poll suggesting roughly 10 million
edit: https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
Lol, okay, now read the other parts there:
29% - Ending Israel’s violence in Gaza 24% - The economy 12% - Medicare and Social Security 11% - Immigration and border security 10% - Healthcare 9% - Abortion policy 5% - Don’t know
In other words, the overwhelming majority of the voters who changed their vote from Biden to someone else were not voting because of Gaza.
An astute reader might note that this lines up pretty closely with what I said way back at the beginning...
Harris lost running on massive inflation, in the same wave that saw almost every incumbent government thrown out by historic margins and still came within only a couple of points of trump.
I'll also just leave this here for you.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/09/09/issues-and-the-2024-election/
harris lost 10 million votes because of gaza.
Yet Trump was much worse for Gaza than any of the democrats would have been.
And that wasn't a surprise before the election. Trump was Bibi's buddy the last time he was in power but people conveniently ignored that.
^ this
'Bbbut... My party didnt say they werent Hitler! Ima gonna sit it out until my party fields a candidate that does!'
The American "centre" seems brain-dead to me as a foreigner (well the left is already not very left) because how the fuck can they consider calling these people fascists hysterical, when they clearly are fascists?
They have so many nukes, and we're their vassals (Australia).
Gods help us all.
Their argument would go something like "you screamed this in 2016, but there were still midterms and a presidential election which removed trump from power, fairly unfascist. There will still be midterms and a presidential election this cycle too."
Personally, I think it's too close for comfort but at the same, fair points.
I honestly like how much I hate this design.
I honestly hate how much I like this design lol
Hoping for the Mussolini ending
Gaddafi?
Another banger finale
Upside down orange emoji
Toen niet
Nu niet
Nooit meer fascisme!
I can't be the only one that wants to doodle in the little mustache...
"Make America Safe Again", Yes, MASA...
American voters still cant be arsed to turn out for the primaries and midterms.
Just america being america.
The primaries issue is the biggest tragedy to me. But, it also makes me chuckle when folks say the Dems answer is to just run a really progressive candidate and then masses of people will come vote for them. The same masses who somehow can never be bothered to make it to the primaries...
Yup. And they say anything else is tantamount to supporting/ encouraging gebocide.
The vibe is the same, the execution is what makes a huge difference. No pun intended.
Well sadly the pun made it through Congress, and is now Federal Law
Pedolini
You should just pretend nothing is happening and hope they go away then.
The funny thing is, im working with a German national rn, and his take on the whole thing us 'oh, so this is how it happened...'.
That looks very flammable
Nothing about this party is subtle, they've been openly emulating hitler and the nazis both terms, more openly than ever this new one, and any resistance has since evaporated as now everyone knows democrats won't enforce the law against them, call them out on stuff, put forth a popular alternative.
But because you all still collectively trust the democrats to run the opposition, we are doomed to these nazi emulating plutocratic clowns running the show. As we speak, on this thread, passing the buck for forcing doomed to fail candidates, blaming voters for not voting for the candidates we knew they wouldn't vote for but forced on them anyway.
But next time I'm sure it will work!
as now everyone knows democrats won’t enforce the law against them, call them out on stuff, put forth a popular alternative.
What do you actually think the Democrats are able to do right now?
I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but do what is an opposition party is supposed to do? If Republicans love to be a thorn on the side despite being the minority in government before, by obstructionism, why can't Democrats do the same despite having the minority?
The only major thing Republicans have been able to do is win minor concessions by threatening to effectively nuke the country. Democrats are not willing to hold the country hostage in the same manner because there are incredible consequences if the bluff is called. (A prolonged government shutdown stops poor people from eating, sick people from getting medical treatment etc. A refusal to lift the debt ceiling would place America in crippling debt and throw the world into a major financial crisis.)
During Biden's term, Republicans looked much stronger because the Supreme court had 6 Conservatives and the Democrats only had 50 seats in the Senate which included Manchin and Sinema. The Democrats have none of that leverage this time.
Democrats are trading long term consequences for short term ones. Prolonged government shut down could do those you mentioned, but since Lemmy love the trolley problem so much, need I remind that those are short term pains compared to enabling fascism to take over later down the line? Because when have fascists ever let go of power? And I'm talking about the state of the US government now, not during Biden's term. Democrats caving in in the previous shutdown doesn't even look genuine. The Democratic politicians who voted with Republicans just so happened that their terms won't be up soon, or are about to retire anyway.
Just look at other countries and the opposition parties do their job as opposition, namely in South Korea and Brazil. They are punishing insurrectionists who tried to subvert democracy. I find that Americans are sedated and still wondering if they are in fascism or not.
need I remind that those are short term pains compared to enabling fascism to take over later down the line?
These actions don't make fascism less likely though.
Fascism thrives on emergencies and suffering, taking away food and medical from millions would do this effectively.
Even worse, if the Democrats messed with the debt ceiling it would fundamentally cripple any future non fascist government's ability to fix problems.
Good idea, look at South Korea and Brazil. They have been able to do things because the of popular legislation and/or the judiciary, not because a minority party obstructed normal legislation. That's the exact opposite of what you are proposing. What those examples demonstrate is the importance of winning elections, not about causing havoc as the opposition party.
The then South Korean opposition wasn't in power at the time, and yet they spearheaded the impeachment and eventual arrest and prosecution of their previous wannabe dictator, who insurrected a coup to prevent him being impeached. Brazil got lucky that their Brazilian Supreme Court was found to be corrupt and aligned with the previous authoritarian Bolsonaro, which led to the replacement of the judges. The new judges along with the other branches of government and opposition prosecuted Bolsonaro.
Brazil and SK opposition prosecuted their dictators to the fullest authority of their laws. The US? They're spineless. Even after Trump's insurrection and after Biden took power, all the US branches failed to prosecute Trump and the Democrats did not hold him accountable. He regained power as a result.
The truth isn't about who holds the seats, it's whether or not politicians and bureaucrats have the political will. The American population have been conditioned to stick to "decorum", even though the opponent is playing dirty and not playing by the rules. The difference is that Brazil and South Korea experienced dictatorship so they know to call a spade-- a spade. The US, hasn't experienced dictatorship, and to be blunt, after exporting to other nations; and couldn't tell that it's dictatorship after throwing it and returned to the hand that threw.
it’s whether or not politicians and bureaucrats have the political will.
That and the institutions, but sure. So, why on Earth would you think that the Dems threatening to hurt American citizens will somehow change the political will/calculus?
"Those Dems are holding the government hostage... I should probably reconsider my position on trump!"
Because the long term consequences are far more dire? Chuck Schumer is among the most unpopular politicians for a reason.
Americans has not known what sacrifice means since the US civil war and Second World War.
Because the long term consequences are far more dire?
Like, are you saying Dems holding America hostage will make Republicans realize trump is the actual threat?
I'm not seeing the mechanism from which Democrats inflicting massive pain on American voters somehow removes trump.
What do you see happening?
Edit: a grammar.
What do you mean holding hostage? Republicans, along with breakaway Dems who are convenient scapegoats, had just gutted healthcare and other public services-- which literally disaffects everyone! And this will have generational consequences. How are Democrats holding America hostage when they are complicit?
What do you mean holding hostage?
The only leverage points, as mentioned earlier, are a government shutdown or refusing to move the debt ceiling. Both of which are just "we are willing to inflict massive pain until our demands are met." That's what hostage taking is.
Other than that, the Dems have no political power until they win in the midterms.
had just gutted healthcare and other public services
These are political complaints. You've moved from "we have to stop fascism" to "I disagree with these policy choices" which is a vastly different arena. I disagree with the policies but more Americans voted for the administration to enact sweeping policy changes, that's democracy even when the results are other than what you wish they were.
A hell of a lot more than sit on their hands and ask for more donations to get people to pay them to maybe consider not sitting on their hands. They do, in fact, still hold political office and power, they could fucking use it for anything other than lining their own pockets as crisis profiteers, which is nigh the only fucking thing I see 99% of them doing.
They hold none of the three branches.
They can whine and protest, which they've been doing. Literally what else do you expect besides them to hold the country hostage via the debt ceiling or shutdown? (And, I might point out the Dems are in fact threatening a shutdown unless changes are made to ICE.)
They could be introducing and proposing bills, they could be voting against things rather than falling in line, they could do whatever they could to obstruct and slow things, instead they’re all just playing respectability politics and campaigning, don’t act like these capitalist fucks are looking out for anyone other than themselves. I want a little less conversation and a little more action.
Democrats have voted against almost every significant bill so far.
What would proposing bills do?
They've been doing the obstruction. You've forgotten Hakeem Jefferies' record setting filibuster because it doesn't make a lick of difference; "oh yay, the bill was stalled for two days! Mighty victory!"
The reality is that the Democrats are essentially powerless until the midterms and unfortunately, reality doesn't change because you wish it were otherwise.
What's the german banner say?
"Dem Führer die Treue" roughly means "Loyalty to the Führer"
Sounds ominous
I hate this timeline.
Was Hitler also this stupid?
A bit less stupid, I think, but equally crazy.
Yes. Everyone gets it. They're fascists. Where are the posts helping us figure out what to effectively do about it? We're very much in the "we have to actually do things" phase. Commenting from the sidelines isn't helping anything.
We should be dragging politicians out onto the streets and stringing them up by their heels at this point, every last one of them.
See the other reply for tips ‘n tricks.
Also, when your favorite NüTankies bitch about the Democratic candidate explain to them that they’re goddamned morons.
Brave