things would be different for sure
1d 11h ago by lemmy.world/u/kali_fornication in politicalmemes
In before Whataboutism comments stating things Harris would have done equally or worse to excuse not preventing Trump during the election.
But let's be clear: if you didn't prevent Trump during the election you are accountable for what is happening now.
Harris would have prevented Trump if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
I choose to blame the ones that are actually in charge of the party. Blaming nameless voters is scapegoating. The party needs to change, we need to demand it instead of giving them an easy excuse.
It was literally Hitler or not Hitler. That should've been the only campaign they needed to run. We all saw what happened during his first term and we all knew what he was planning for his second.
That should've been all the information needed and anyone who ignored that information is directly to blame for all of this.
Yup, and they literally still fucked it up lol
If by they you mean voters, then yes đŻ
Congratulations, the Dems will continue to run corrupt centrist liberal candidates and your mindset is why
It should have been that, but Harris was campaigning heavily to the center and the center leaning right.
Fuck, they basically muzzled Tim Walz during the campaign. Did you notice how he was no longer allowed to call MAGA weird? I sure did.
Then there was the fact that Harris had to run on Biden's full platform. I know that she personally disagreed with parts, the unpopular parts. She was never really allowed to say it during the campaign.
But really, I mostly blame that little shit Crooks, you either get it right, or you don't do it at all. Trump used that survival to galvanize his base, and that's what an election needs to be in this divided world. Don't worry about the other side. We live in different realities and, they don't often intersect. You have to focus completely on your own base as much as possible. They're the one who will actually vote, if you can get them to care enough to do so.
Harris didn't do that. And that's why she lost.
She lost because not enough people voted for her. How people interpreted her vibe or whatever is secondary.
Not enough people voted for her, because of how people interpreted her vibe. That's the point. You campaign to your base, or not at all.
Never try to reach across the aisle, it doesn't work and drives away the base.
Look at the progressive candidates that have recently won by landslides. They campaigned to the base.
You mean the mayors of solid-blue large cities?
Yeah that was exciting but thatâs not going to sell in Boise.
Progressives are consistently more popular in red states than centrist Democrats. I'm living in a deep red state in a rural area and have all my life. I talk to mouth-foaming reactionaries on a regular basis. The difference in our conversations about people like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris versus people like Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, and AOC is extremely stark. They never have anything good to say about the former, but always preface their disapproval of the latter with "I agree with some of the stuff they say about [insert progressive policy proposal here], but I don't think it's realistic / I don't agree on their 'woke' stuff."
The centrist strategy of abandoning one's own values to reach across the aisle to them comes across to conservatives as dishonest and shady (and they're not wrong). They begrudgingly respect the progressive left for being uncompromising in their worldview, even if they disagree with it, and once you have someone's respect they are more likely to meaningfully engage with your arguments. That's how you change minds, and I've watched it happen on multiple occasions.
Its a fair point
"She lost because she lost." Why do you think this is helpful in any way?
It's not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it. Like the millions who voted for Trump, Stein, or stayed the fuck home. You can blame shitty campaigns too but I'm sick and tired of hearing how the voters are fucking blameless. Fuck that. Trump wouldn't have ever even been on the ballot if our populace wasn't dumber than a fucking brick. I am going to blame these dipshits and evil fucks for their actions and I absolutely should blame them.
It's not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it.
Like letting off your war criminals and putting them on pedestals? Seems like an snowball effect to allow your presidents to do anything they please?
Seems like you're more responsible than you think for the state of things.
Try to make your presidents liable for their actions next time so you don't have to whine about it on the internet when you don't get your way?
We're sick and tired of it too.
Sorry your are tired of It. Your help would be most appreciated. As the saying goes, lead, follow, or get out of the way.
WHATABOUTWHATABOUT
It's not whataboutism to detail the list of failures from democrats that built the current situation we are in. They are weak party that offers little and provides less, and they fail to win much of anything because of it.
It is always whataboutism to try to shift the conversation to something you think you can argue for more easily.
Definitionally, talking about two causally linked things is not whataboutism. You could argue it's shifting blame, and I would still disagree, but at least it would be coherent.
Oh well, since I have something to prove to you and the thread doesn't speak for itself I will now spend 30 minutes arguing with you about it. Oh wait it's not 2019 anymore.
It is a bit academic at this point. I just hoped that liberals contend with the reality that you have to align with your voters, rather than always trying to set blame on the millions that stay politically disaffected.
Why do you punch down instead of punching up?
You are clueless. And you literally commented about 20 times after this so far. Latest of which is you lying your ass off and pretending Harris would be doing basically the same shit as trump with ice. Laughably false. Go away.
I feel like people blaming Harris, and those blaming the voters are talking past each other, and it isn't at all productive. Just like China and the USA can both be bad, it isn't an either/or situation.
I understand the frustration from both sides, and I'm also angry at all the dipshits who advocated for non-voting or voting third party in the face of obvious fascism, but I'm sick of seeing this same damn slap fight in every post. We should be focusing on the future, not bickering about the past. If we're going to build a coalition to defeat fascismâwhich is desperately neededâwe can't spend our energy relitigating electoral failures, and castigating the disaffected.
Yes, Harris was a flawed candidate, running a misguided campaign. Yes, the people who didn't vote for her are responsible for our current situation. We have to move on to what we're going to do now.
Yep which is why we need to stop hearing about Harris.
I agree, and my comment probably ought to have been directed at OP. I just see you around a lot, and while I obviously empathize with your frustration, I think this line of argument is counterproductive.
I mean it probably is, and I probably could at least approach it more like you if I'm going to engage.
it was rigged against her, the voter machines have been found to have been manipulated through starlink, plus many red states stopped counting the moment they were in the lead. the DNC wernt willing to fight fraud at all, it makes them spinelesa nd complicit.
The flame of democracy requires vigilance. Based on comments like yours I know democracy was a doomed failed experiment. We really deserve what's coming to us
Your attitude is exactly the one that has brought us to the rise of Mein Orangutan, of demanding no more than whatever seems slightly more favorable than the worst case possible.
Advancing conditions for the base of the population would depend on much more than simply voting in national elections for the Democratic Party. In fact, it requires looking beyond the two-party machine, by organizing local campaigns, worker unions, and direct action.
Yeah, let's blame lack of advertisement. World would be so much better if everyone advertised better.
if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
Yes. She was impure. Therefore we had to cast her out.
I won't pat someone on the back who willingly covered themselves in filth and drove everyone away.
How hard is it to just tell Israel to fuck off. They couldn't even pretend for a few months. Not to mention everything else (billionaires, healthcare, etc). Their whole campaign was basically a shrug with a trite "well what else are you going to do, we are all you have suckers".
Sorry they didn't tune the entirety of their election platform to your personal view of the world.
Anyway, you got what you wanted, why are you still bitching over a year later?
I wanted anyone but Trump, that's why I still voted for Harris. I didn't get what I wanted because supporting genocide and the 1% was more important to her and her party then what I wanted.
It's also telling the language you use. Being against genocide is just a personal view that can be ignored? I guess with you being pro-Israel, the entire election was a win-win situation for you.
Sure comrade, Iâm all for genocide. Your dumbass mod is spot on.
FFS.
You are the one rabidly defending a few who pushed it knowing it was deeply unpopular, even while knowing Trump was to be the consequence.
They fucked you too you know, they fucked all of us for a foreign genocidal state. Although I'm not sure if it's all that foreign to you.
Iâm rabidly defending the unconscionably simple point that the country of the United States would be in a 1000% better position if the fuckwit MAGAts and the holier-than-thou left could have shut their whine holes for six weeks and made the ultimate sacrifice to vote for Harris.
You âclaimâ you did, yet here you are continuing to shit on her campaign a year later for what can only be described as rabidly pro-trump reasons. You stand against âtheyâ who ânever condemned but actively encouragedâ genocide (a provenly blatant lie) so much so that you lent all your public effort to the candidate guaranteed to pour huge amounts of gasoline on the fire.
Congratulations, your genocide is worse now than ever before and the end that is in sight - is the end of Gaza. Well done, you and the Wankshevics of Local 419 have done The Cause proud by narrowly focusing on the wrong thing so intently. So much so that youâre still out here now barking about it. Brilliant.
This is some serious fuck the /s commentary. Anyone who can see the sarcasm dripping from this comment needs to do some serious self reflection.
Eh, you're obviously not capable of nuance. Just do yourself a favor and tell yourself Kamala lost due to racism or sexism. That way at least you won't hurt your head thinking too hard.
So you'd rather pave the way for the beacon or purity that is... Trump?
I mean, he is honest....
He posted with a Bible, so that is rule 1 completed.
He doesn't make idols, he is one and is made in the image of god, so good enough. (Rule 2)
I don't think he can remember the name of the lord so that is rule 3.
Rule 4 is every day for him I think.
Rule 5: how better to honor a POS father than being a bigger POS?
Rule 6: He hasn't killed anybody. (Personally)
Rule 7 is a tough one
Rule 8: Technically he is not stealing. If you make the rules you can just say you didn't break them.
Rule 9: The white house is fairly sparse on neighbors so I will give this one a pass.
Rule 10: This is also a tough one, but I will go with that his brain is so mushy at that point that it is impossible for him to covet something.
/s of course for whoever needs it.
(/s)
And the administration that didnât put a single one of these people in jail? Even after the fascists released a document that was basically titled âWeâre Gonna Do a Fascism in 2025â?
Might that administration be⌠a little more accountable than the voters they failed to convince?
assigning blame is one thing and i dont think it matters at this point tbh but anyone who is firmly in the both parties/candidates are the same isnt fully there mentally. They can both be bad mind you but bad and fuck-off-terrible-WWIII-ARMAGEDDON are not the same MO.
People who support genocide are there mentally?
Definitely not but not condemning hard enough and actively getting a boner while thinking about all the nice real estate that is gonna be freed up after killing and displacing everyone is still different. I would just like to identify the lesser evil, choose the lesser evil, get the lesser evil and then criticize it and fight it until we can get an even lesser evil. Do that a few times and u might eventually arrive at something worth being called good.
If Trump was doing it for real estate, what was Biden doing it for? Money? Blackmail? Just for fun?
not condemning hard enough
Fyi, they weren't condemning them at all, not even a little. They actively enabled.
Is excusing and shrugging off genocide the lesser evil for you right now? How hard is it to say that the dems were in the wrong? They literally need to hear it and loudly.
Fyi, they weren't condemning them at all, not even a little. They actively enabled.
This is a complete lie. If you're not aware of it, you're an idiot. But you're not an idiot, are you. You know very well you're telling a gross lie to advance your narrative.
They funded it and sent weapons while it was happening. They never once condemned it.
For anyone wondering, Optional already has had many comment removed for genocide denial. He is actively on the side of Israel.
Edit: They did condemn it, I guess it was hard to hear over all the weapon packages they were sending at the same time, and all the "Israel has a right to defend itself". Good thing optional had a list of links ready.
Good thing optional had a list of links ready.
Optional did a 5 second web search. Because optionalâs so goddamned wily.
More lies eh. Well, enjoy then.
Just some food for thought: US President Joe Biden has condemned Israel's killing of seven humanitarian aid workers in Gaza. Saying he was "outraged and heartbroken", he accused Israel of not doing enough to protect aid ...
Biden condemns 'totally unacceptable' death of American
Biden's antisemitism czar condemns Israel, not antisemites
Biden Embraces Then Condemns Israel
Biden scolds Israel over settlement plan
Biden's Historic Executive Order Imposes Israeli Sanctions
Biden criticises 'most extreme' ministers in Israeli government
They never once condemned it.
Bullshit. Again.
Seems kind of hollow when one of his last actions as president was to send them 8 billion dollars worth of weapons.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-administration-notifies-congress-of-planned-8-billion-weapons-sale-to-israel
January 4th 2025, that was what he was worried about. What a joke.
I accept your apology for lying that âtheyâ never once condemned Israelâs actions and agree that politics should be super duper simple such that any random person trained as a nurse, plumber, sysadmin, or botanist could successfully lead nations with no further education. For some reason âtheyâ wonât tell us about that doesnât seem to be the case.
You don't need to be a plumber to know that helping kill civilians is a bad way to win an election.
Are you ready to dispute the fact that they sent billions of dollars worth of missiles while the genocide was going on?
You don't need to be a plumber to know that helping kill civilians is a bad way to win an election.
You understand thatâs what trump ran on and won with, right? So, wrong again I guess?
Since youâre so desperate to buy you own fetid bullshit about what some dipshit rando believes; NO i didnât approve of the sale of offensive weapons to Israel and yes it was dead stupid of Biden to live in the 1980âs and for Harris to not disavow that position loudly.
Okay? So fuck your genocide support and tell your hero mod to bite my shiny metal ass.
NO i didnât approve of the sale of offensive weapons to Israel and yes it was dead stupid of Biden to live in the 1980âs and for Harris to not disavow that position loudly.
If you know it's their fault, why pivot the blame to others. Why defend them everytime. They won't change if they don't have to, you are enabling them.
Trump didn't deserve to win and we don't deserve to have him up there, but I'm not going to applaud the idiots who tried their hardest to lose. Being not as bad doesn't cut it anymore, they need to be good enough to win. They need to do better and I plan on holding them to it (at least in spirit) instead of pointing fingers at everyone else.
I see blaming voters as class warfare tbh. It's like massive companies telling us the foreign workers are to blame instead of the ones making the decisions.
I just see it differently. Iâll argue the former point after the election, but in the end not doing everything possible to defeat trump is an outrageous dereliction of duty. Your one-issue campaign is not the most important one, polling-wise, though it is the most important one in these kinds of threads.
So no I donât blame them for running a flawed campaign - theyâre all flawed. I do blame the shithouse rats that crawl out here to pretend only they know how a national campaign and administration (and foreign policy) works. Because thatâs not only stupid bullshit, it actively hurts the outcome, and itâs stupid bullshit.
And weâll see it again in September. Watch. The so-called-left here will be out with bullshit reasons why we shouldnât vote for Democrats in the midterms and then immediately pivot to how Democrats never get any legislation passed. Itâs fucking idiocy in full force.
No, but seriously though. I too was here to watch it all unfold.
First it was âBiden too oldâ and they were right.
Then it was âKamala is just the same as Biden!â Completely ignoring the whole website she had up that went over HER platform.
Just assholes who are helping stir the flames for some weird ass reason.
The so-called-left here will be out with bullshit reasons why we shouldnât vote for Democrats in the midterms and then immediately pivot to how Democrats never get any legislation passed. Itâs fucking idiocy in full force.
So true. I thought they'd give it a rest when Kamala took over the campaign, but then it was all about how Kamala was equal to Biden all along.
When I saw this obvious and very simply and strongly true meme, I thought "I bet the comments will be full of the most aggregious tankie crap about how the Democrats are 100% the same as the Republicans" and I was not wrong.
Being against a genocide is simple, fucking psycho.
Go out and touch some grass. Your upbringing and education clearly failed you.
All of this was empty words, Biden was clearly a firm Zionist and it made him willfully blind to the Palestinian Genocide to the point that he would only scold Netanyahu, not do anything to stop it.
Okay? So you love trump. Good for you. Now get out there and help DOGE destroy the government you rascally leftist you. Oh, uh, and while you're meeting with your heroes trump and Steven Miller maybe get them to stop selling Israel weapons etc etc since you claim that matters to you so much.
Unless thatâs just a pose and what you really want is to help defeat Democrats for any reason you can think of. I hear they let some guy run whoâs like, a Christian, or some shit. Use that one next time.
Okay? So you love trump. Good for you.
Nope
Stop punching down.
But letâs be clear: if you didnât prevent Trump during the election you are accountable for what is happening now.
Voting for Kamala would just delay the fascism by another 4 years of regular neoliberal decay and less overt imperialist genocide. I mean, I'd have voted for her too if I was in the US, but blaming people who didn't vote hard enough is counterproductive.
You can't shame people into choosing the lesser evil neoliberalism again. And even if you did (kinda like what happened in 2020), it will just enable the dems to become even worse, because it shows them that they can win by pointing at trump, while increasingly doing the same shit he's doing (because it's ultimately beneficial for their donors).
You need to build something which is not owned by the billionaires, which actually inspires people by promising and building real solutions, showing real improvements in their quality of life, and then they will show up.
If you aren't part of PSL or some other socialist/communist/anarchist org trying to dismantle the oligarchy, you are not part of the solution. This is not to say you are to blame, the blame lies squarely on the ruling class deciding that fascism is worth it because it will increase the rate of profit, everything else be damned.
But we're so pure and true and intelligent, it is absolutely our mandate to prevent progress in America by disrupting voting for Democrats or any progressive candidate!
Just because that always and inevitably leads us to the kind of gunfire turdcircus we've got again is not our fault at all! They caused it themselves by being insufficiently pure and true!
Bourgeoise!!! Stalin did nothing wrong!
Biden should've dropped out sooner. The DNC should've had an election. Absolute refusal of any responsibility will only ensure nothing changes.
There's a pivotal moment that could've changed history (on this front).
In Biden's final State of the Union address, there were rumors circulating about his mental deterioration. A lot of insiders were reporting similar experiences. These were often dismissed, because they sound exactly like attacks from his opponents, particularly on the right.
Then the address happened. Biden was entirely present. He was passionate, he was articulate. He showed no signs of what people were claiming. Clearly, he had a very good day. The criticisms and reports stopped, although he skipped a number of traditional public appearances.
Fast forward a few months to the debate, and he had a bad night. Everything that people had been warning about, was on full display. To make it worse, Trump's dementia was having a good day.
What would've happened if the SOTU had happened on a bad day?
Trump's dementia wasn't having a good day. He said his normal amount of stupid and incoherent things. We had accepted this from him as the dumb, angry, incoherent candidate. But when the smart, mostly articulate candidate had a performance that blew Trump's normal incoherence out of the water, it was too much to ignore.
Why do people forget that Biden told everyone he would be a one term/transitional President during his campaign. If theres a moment, then its the moment Joe Biden decided to go against his own pre-Presidential calculations and try to hold onto power for a second term.
Justifications aside, he should have allowed the democratic process to follow through naturally (as much as is possible in that byzantine system). And fully supported the Democratic party's choice as an elder Statesman and soon to be Presidential Alumni who qould be remembered for his commitment to democracy over power, rather than power over democracy.
People forget because Biden made his one term promise in an extremely dishonest and slimy way. He never actually explicitly promised to be a one term president. Instead, his campaign organized a large series of representatives to go out and imply that he would be a one term president. He got a bunch of Democratic big wigs to go around telling people that he would only run for one term. His campaign organized all of this messaging, but he himself never made the promise with his own lips.
It wasn't just a mistake, it was a deliberate deception. He lied to the American people. He just crafted his lie carefully to provide plausible deniability later. Sure, there were tons of people, on his orders, saying that he would be a one term president. But he never actually promised to drop out after one term!
He's a slime ball.
Thats the uncharitable reading and the link discusses that.
My opinion. If they thought it would sell, then they knew it was an acceptable option. Biden's decision not to understand the wisdom of a one term presidency was his failure. So it doesn't matter whether he planned to be a one termer or not, the option was in the frame. Therefore it was a real option he had, whether he took it seriously or not is all to his failing.
The answer to why he wouldn't commit to it early is given in the linked article. If he had he would be a lame duck from the outset. Politics is about timing, a confirmation of a one term presidency at a normal time would have been the correct action. So from what I gather about the process, that would've been about a year out from the end of term.
If he had he would be a lame duck from the outset.
This is a bone headed take. A lame duck is not a lame duck simply because they're not running again. They're a lame duck because they're unpopular and politically irrelevant. If he had declared to be a one-term president, he could have spent his term building up a bench of potential candidates for 2024. He still would have had great power, influence, and the bully pulpit, even if he wasn't running again. He wouldn't be an individual, he would be part of a team. And that team is what would allow continuity and the prevention of a lame duck term.
Lame duck isn't a popularity contest.
Your suggestions of what he could have done are all what a Lame Duck could get through, so i think you'rethinking a Lame Duck presidency is more useless than it is.
Its the big policies, like that Inflation Reduction Act, or Jan 6 commission, that would have been much harder to even get started. I know, I know, so much for those.
Fast forward a few months to the debate, and he had a bad night. Everything that people had been warning about, was on full display. To make it worse, Trumpâs dementia was having a good day.
How insane is it for this to actually be part of the discourse? About which candidate's dementia was acting up more than the other's on a given day?
The quoted bit above would give even a hypothetical outside party with no prior knowledge or experience of what's happened since, a pregnant pause followed by some variant of "what the fuck?"
"What the fuck?" has been my reaction to pretty much everything since about 2016.
The Democratic Party is not coming to save us.
No one is coming to save us.
We can be saved only by doing the work to take care of each other, to protect each other, and to relate to each other as members of community.
Real talk: let's say Democrats actually went, "Ah shucks we failed and it was our responsibility." Would that really change anything?
I'm tired man. I don't care for apologies. I don't care for hour long speeches. Trump bullies his way through to get what he wants.
Mamdani (NY mayor) is taking action.
If it got them to stop running further to the right? Yes.
They're all in on the strategy of being less bad than their opponents, a strategy guaranteed to either not win elections, or win only a single term while letting fascists get stronger. Mamdani won despite their efforts, and until they embrace more people like him everywhere, things will only get worse.
But didn't you hear? He's not left enough according to the same people who told you not to vote for Harris
Your straw man is falling over in the wind there friend.
Wow you combined logical fallacy AND metaphor? What an intellectual. It makes no sense but it sure is clever.
Nah this ain't it, you need to workshop that one more.
Hell is debating with neoliberal losers forever about what could have been.
I'm glad your hell is just people pointing out that this entire administation owes their entire ability to sic paramilitary warmongering fascists on the populace to your apathy and inability to unravel the simplest logical quandaries.
Meanwhile, people are being rounded up by the modern SS and citizens are being executed in the street. Why don't you just delete your comment, and then stay home, and do nothing, just like the last election.
Who was in charge for the decades of rising wealth inequality and corporate power that fascism was a reaction to?
For me, it's living in a failed country, suffering through the daily consequences of decades of neoliberalism (aka soft imperialism), followed by fascism. It's having to argue for basic civil rights with most of the people in my life only to have a whole other group of people argue that their actions brought fascism now to avoid worse fascism later. Wow, what a brilliant plan. Let's hear more about how accelerating our problems is going to fix them. We could've had 4 more years of neoliberalism and continued to let the progressive caucus grow. But sure, death and destruction is better.. Somehow..
people argue that their actions brought fascism now to avoid worse fascism later.
See, now that's interesting. There was only one major organized movement around a policy change during the election, and it wasn't about the timing of implementing fascism.
And it lost, as the policy did not change.
Even today the losing party is taking the Whig party strategy of trying to avoid the issue. The Whigs famously failed as a party and ultimately allowed Slavery to spiral as an issue until America Civil Warred over it.
That's silly.
You won't get to debate it forever. Just until the purity of your ideology leads you to a starve to death in a gulag.
People with the position you're arguing with, usually come from some sort of privilege, and they just don't understand what it is to have it truly bad. They usually experience some sort of advercity and prosecution, and they, as humans often do, believe that that was bad and it can't be worse, so when they sacrifice people on altar of endless purity checks, they don't think of it as an act of cruelty, because they believe that they sacrifice people faiths akin to bad arguments on twitter, not being shot in the face by a paramilitary member.
The same centrist Dems who willingly sacrificed the Palestinians and are now proposing that minority groups in the US be sacrificed as well. And they're certainly not proposing abolishing or cutting ICE's funding. Kamala and her clique perform regular electoral calculus where they figure out what minority group is worth throwing into the woodchipper to appeal to more middle aged suburban white people.
You can look for excuses all you want, but you had choices, not great, and terrifyingly bad, and you chose one that is worse, and as a consequence of that, a bunch of evil happens that could be avoided. And at this point it doesn't matter how not great the other choice was.
You have myopia and are incapable of planning long term.
No, I think hell is when you're stripped of human rights because some winner on the Internet spent months helping to elect administration that helps both you and said winner. One level of that hell is being shot in the face, while said winner continues to blame everyone else for what's ultimately his decision.
Never forget US foreign policy is uniparty.
Imperialist atrocities are excusable when they are ordered by someone claiming to be queer friendly.
Some may, but more and more are turning away from the liberals.
I know, but the context is a pretense that liberal politicians are benevolent.
Weird how there always seems to be bipartisan support on pro-corporate issues, huh?
This is a widely accepted paradigm in the Global South, where the majority of humankind calls home.
I hate this line of thinking because it literally doesn't change anything for anybody.
You might as well put up a meme that says, "If a Asteroid hit Donald, we'd be in this reality." With space ships and gundams.
If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike!
I think itâs more a warning to people for next time. If they ever get a chance to vote again maybe they should think about the impact of not voting.
Could we maybe warn to party to actually represent us instead?
So itâs ok for fascists to win because the only viable other party doesnt represent you?
What the hell is wrong with people.
You've got that the wrong way around. It's not okay for one party to be shit just because the other wants to destroy the world.
Agree with you. But the last election was not the time to discuss that. The time was before by voting in local elections, or after by again voting in local elections.
You had a chance to make things better with Harris. But with Trump you might never be able to vote again.
This line of reasoning means it's never time to discuss that as long as one side is pushing facism. Who I vote for park commissioner isn't going to change the way this country is run.
People with your political instincts are why we are fighting the what we are today. You continue to fail to learn that you can't shame people into voting no matter how hard you try.
I just saw a meme about how shame is dead. We need to bring back shame. Anyone who helped Trump gain the power he has ought to be ashamed.
We can start with Kamala, Biden, and everyone at the DNC. They could use a good stay in the public stockades for running such a monumentally stupid campaign. We could set up a stockade on the national mall. Everyone could come and throw rotten tomatoes at them. It would be great!
Cool. I am shamed, now what?
Change.
No. Now what?
Nothing, you already live in it. Try not to make it worse somehow, I guess?
If you feel shame but refuse to change your behaviour then I guess you're just an asshole. You know you are doing wrong but continue. There's nowhere good to go from there.
Thereâs nowhere good to go from there.
lol I say no once and you're out of ideas. I return to my thesis, people with your political instincts are why we are where we are.
I said you're an asshole (ban incoming i guess) after you said you dont care about feeling shame.
No idea what the rest of your comment is about. What is a person with poltical instincts and how did they lead to where we are now?
I corrected a typo, hope it cleared up a bit, but in case it didn't; the point being it doesn't mater what you think people ought to do, or ought to feel ashamed about. If your political method ends with, "Well then you're an asshole and I give up" at the first sign of resistance, congratulations you've perfectly described the democratic party for the last decade+.
Ok. My only point was that people who knowingly do wrong without shame are assholes. I wasn't talking about political methods.
I return to my thesis, people with political instincts are why we are where we are.
Hmm . . . So darn those people with political instincts.
Ah, thank you, fixed.
No people like you are why trump is in office and not her. Those that need perfection or fuck the world. How many people would still be alive today if not for trump. But at least you have ypur laurals.
No, but I'd rather tell the party that doesn't represent me to start doing it instead of telling them they did nothing wrong.
I voted for Harris mind you, I just want to vote for someone I truly believe in next time and that won't happen if we just keep scapegoating. I'm actually scared they might try to run her again at this point.
It wouldn't surprise me if its her vs Gavin in a primary. And I don't think that either is a great choice
If that's the general ballot then we'll already have lost 2032 and the fascism will get even worse. Biden all over again. We'll continue to fail the working class and they'll continue to blame Democrats.
Thats what Im afriad of. I work a blue collar job and its wild that all my coworkers think that its libs like me are the reason the working class is so fucked. And they think that not taxing billionaires is a good idea. đ¤Śââď¸
Fully agree with you. She was a bad candidate.
So itâs ok for fascists to win...
As supposed to the other fascists to win.
And that's why posts like this are important, otherwise people do this both sides bullshit all over. I mean, you still do, but that's for spite I believe
That's such a logical leap, I must conclude you're a Republican.
I would conclude that it's not the voters that need a warning, but the leaders.
In a democracy, if you don't support the will of your voter base, you deserve to lose the election. It's not the voters fault when politicians run completely ineffective campaigns.
And fuck the "lesser evil" utilitarian horseshit. The Nazis currently running the federal government justify everything they do based on utilitarian principles.
ICE's terror campaign? It's the lesser of two evils. We can't let crime run rampant!
Destroying international law and invading sovereign countries? A lesser evil required by our national security.
The mass corruption of the administration? DIsmissable as a lesser evil necessary to advance necessary policies.
The literal historical Nazis justified everything they did on utilitarian grounds. They claimed murdering millions of innocent people was an unfortunate necessity, the lesser evil of many bad options.
You have to start your ethics from a framework of respect for persons. Everything else just leads you to Hell.
My daughter dates a rich nepo baby. He loves Trump because he's made a lot of money. Fascism is great for the rich.
Sorry about your daughter.
Hey let's not forget that Musk and Trump and others have all but admitted to stealing the election with voter machine fraud.
Also, the voter turn out in 2024 was only topped by 2020 iirc. The idea that it happened because people decided not to vote is horseshit neolib agitprop
I didn't realise Revd Dr. Robert Evans had moved onto the more palatable title of Ronald Reagan III.
That's The Honorable Revd Dr. Ronald Reagan III to you! (I think someone made him a judge?)
I love how he got vampired into judge hood
She promised to continue what Biden was doing, which included continuing to run ICE, so no, not "not a single one."
And she was fully on board with more military bloat, you being poor, and kids being genocided.
But Blue MAGA is okay with this stuff as long as a person doesn't say any naughty words.
Such stupid binary thinking to think ICE under her or Biden is the same as ICE under Trump.
ICE records show Biden admin plans could give Trump a head start on deportations
President Biden Signs Anti-Immigrant Spending Bill Reaching Trump-Era Highs
Bidenâs Emergency Funding Proposal Seeks $14 Billion for Immigration System From Congress
Keep in mind, these democratic moves to bolster ICE were happening while the right was blatantly telegraphing their moves to immediately weaponize ICE once they took power. Project 2025 came out and promised to use ICE to plunder and abuse Americans. Biden and team then spent the next 4 years not only failing to prepare for Trump, but preemptively strengthening the mechanisms Trunp would eventually use to carry out project 2025. The democrats are controlled opposition.
Sure, maybe we wouldnt be seeing this intense of immigration enforcement if Kamala were in charge, but if she were, she'd be working behind the scenes to ensure the right had all the tools they needed when the time was right.
The democrats are controlled opposition and the American electoral system is kabuki theater.
Yeah there it is again, binary thinking. There's no point in discussing with ml so ciao.
We should have 75% opacity fascism, so it's not binary.
If they didn't say "not a single one," then I couldn't break their argument with a very simple example of how that's not true. Maybe we instead recognize that it wouldn't be at the same pace of acceleration, but she had no interest in dismantling ICE as far as she stated. Even if she kept it at the same level as before means she'd've been keeping it at the level that Trump left it with.
You didn't break their argument, you put this as stupid binary thinking. And you continue it here! So ciao.
I love how you use "binary thinking" just because someone has used it on you and you still don't know exactly what it means
"having principles"
There's literally a fasces in the background of that photo lol
Who? I can't see past the fascist in the foreground.
Your missing the point is so spot-on, I'm speechless.
Sure she would have been better. But still a blue maga. Did I vote for her? Yes.
But I wanted Bernie.
I'm on the other side of the planet and I wanted Bernie.
Same.
The ice thing would still be happening for sure. She made that clear during her campaign. The difference is when a dem does wrong libs stop showing up to the protests that we organize and tell us "atleast its not trump!" "stop dividing the left" etc.
Under a Democrat, ICE would stick a rainbow flag on their vests next to the POLICE patches.
Really makes you feel like you're part of something!
Perhaps an intimate NYT piece about an ICE agent of Somali descent after the recent tragedy in Minneapolis with the closing lines:
The work we do is important, and is an integral part of our freedom and security. Eat Fresh.
The ICE thing probably wouldn't be as bad or as blatant (no public executions on the street). But still pretty bad, and more organized.
The Venezuela thing would also be happening but with different justifications and different methods (probably a coup of some kind, orchestrated by supplying local reactionaries with weapons and suitcases of cash).
The Epstein files would still be full of ââââââââ except you wouldn't be able to just copy-paste the text to get the unredacted version.
Gaza would probably be exactly the same TBH. So would Sudan.
The main differences would be in some (token or otherwise) support for renewables and academia, slightly less deregulation and tax breaks for billionaires, and of course all the institutional imperialism/soft power stuff (international orgs, NATO/Greenland, etc).
Yeah I would have much preferred Maduro being conveniently couped instead of captured.
Everything automatically improves when the CIA gets told to be more clandestine and the president can just deny all involvement, along with her diehard supporters who insist she would have also saved Gaza.
She would not have dismantled United for Ukraine, which has been a humanitarian travesty in the United States.
Robert is still on twitler?
Yeah nobody wanted her but under her it at least world have been more.of the same boring bullshit, not this end times bullshit
Just to clarify because the upvote ratio seems a bit too high.
Both parties are locking you in a system where your only decision is who's boots to lick. Both are fascist and America is the biggest terrorist state maybe in the history of humanity.
My personal favorite:
Seriously, this is getting old. I have a fat collection of comments on this and c/Politics from 2+ years ago saying Biden was gonna flop long before Harris added fuel to the dumpster fire.
This thread even has the classic "regardless if you didn't vote against Trump, its 100% you're fault that we're in this situation"
Yeah definitely my fault Harris's campaign staff banned my local democrat state legislator from attending the DNC, and basically told a substantial voter base to fuck off.
Can't wait for the next horrendous candidate they'll run with in 2028. Probably Newsom.
Licking boots is fun when they are worn by someone claiming to be queer friendly.
I would post electoral reform videos, but that time has passed us by. Enjoy jerking yourselves off to all the bad things you think disenfranchised people deserve, blue MAGA.
Except the Gaza genocide
Yeah none of that going on while Trump is president. No siree.
Certainly not our, "wipe them all from the face of the earth and build a Trump casino over their graves" president. No siree.
yes, only a "Let us give endless tax dollars and weapons for Israel to do it's genocide however it pleases and block UN resolutions." Kind of genocide.
LOL if you think Kamala wouldn't have also taken an "America First" policy approach you're deluding yourself. It just would have been less overt. It's always been America First Fuck Everyone Else. Always.
American Oligarchy First Fuck Everyone Else. FTFY.
But that laugh. Think of our little Disney princess ears.