Germans have lost faith in the US, survey reveals
1d 14h ago by lemmy.zip/u/schizoidman in europe@feddit.org from dpa-international.com
Three quarters of Germans consider the United States to be an unreliable partner, according to a survey published on Thursday.
78% of those queried currently consider France to be a trustworthy partner and 74% consider the UK to be a trustworthy partner.
According to the survey, 40% consider Ukraine to be a trustworthy partner, while 48% of respondents believe that Germany cannot trust Ukraine.
It is pretty common that the US especially with Republican presidents is not seen as trustworthy in Germany, but 15% is really low. Especially given that the AfD is above 25% in polls and they are basically the Trumpists of Germany.
I think it is qualitatively the same in Sweden. People dislike Trump but vote for the same politics. It seems like some coping mechanism, where they try and distance themselves from Trump, because even to European racists he is disgusting, and that makes them think it is ok to keep voting for it.
well the thing is that sharing this sort of ideology doesn't really mean your goals are really aligned on most issues at all since "America First" is necessarily "Sweden Last". It's of course especially dumb to push for this sort of worldview everywhere if you're from a small country that really needs the world to cooperate...
The greatest enemy of any right wing chauvinist is a right wing chauvinist from a different culture.
how low has it historically fluctuated to with more normal presidents?
I couldn't find numbers for this specific institute, only that this is the lowest it's ever been. A similar question was asked in[0], where the US under Obama was seen positively by 64% of Germans, while under Bush it was 30% and 78% under Clinton
[0]https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/obama-steigert-weltweit-us-ansehen-6806518.html
Americans have lost faith in the United States.
Decent ones, yeah.
They’re the only ones that count, for me. But yeah, I should specify for the Nazis in the crowd, lest they get the wrong idea. 😉
15% of people surveyed in Germany do not pay attention to anything going on around them. No shot they have any idea what the US is doing and still think they are trustworthy. Well, I guess it could make sense if their schools are as bad as ours are.
If you take a look at every survey out there, there will always be 10% idiots. Regardless of what you're polling for, 10% of the answers will be batshit insane. You can ask questions like "Do you want to be more healthy in the new year" and 10% will answer "no". You can ask "Do you want to quit smoking" and 10% will answer that they want to increase their tobacco usage.
Do you want to be more healthy in the new year” and 10% will answer “no”. You can ask “Do you want to quit smoking” and 10% will answer that they want to increase their tobacco usage.
Those are totally valid answers. There are healthy people who do not want to be more healthy and others who have given up who have chosen other goals.
Same with smoking. There are smokers who enjoy it and don't want to give it up.
That's not crazy.
Quislings in the waiting
Why in God's name did you ever trust the US??
There is a fundamental difference between the USA of the past and Trumps MAGA regime. Yes, the USA was never really trustworthy, even under Clinton or Obama. But what Trump is currently doing is on a totally new level.
There's been a long period of propaganda through tv shows and movies portraying the USA as an utopia of freedom and morality.
That carefully crafted image has been very powerful in all European countries, making the American bigger brother and protector a very ingrained idea. This benefited American trade to no end, many American brands were commonly known and wanted.
I remember traveling to the USA and wanting to taste all the things we couldn't get in Europe, like mountain dew or taco bell. Only after trying Reese's chocolate did I understand that marketing and quality are not the same.
But this empire that was built in wake of the Marshall plan had been slowly crumbling, and as of the last year actively lobotomized.
I don't know if you can sell the same products to China or Russia
Russia and china are doing the same propaganda now though and have been for years.
Not as effective, culturally speaking.
I know little or nothing about Chinese or Russian popular culture, yet I was spoon fed us culture through cartoons and movies.
Well they did save europe from the nazi's earlier in history
OK, the one brief moment we incidentally ended up on the right side of history.
But you look at what we were doing immediately before and after that, selling weapons to the Nazis while praising fascism as the savior of Europe, and after, dividing Korea in half, then murdering anyone left of Mussolini in our half, it's clearly an aberration.
"Saving europe from the nazis" is far too much credit for the USA... but they did play a significant role, just weren't the only one putting in work to do it. Unfortunately the Soviets also took the eastern half for their efforts...
I don't know what you're referring to with "selling weapons to the nazis" though, the aid in weapons to Britain and USSR was significant before USA entered the war and there was a ban on selling weapons to anyone before that happened.
Same with praising fascism, in general the Nazis tried to demonize the US government and focused on the jewish members of it in particular. There were certainly some American fascists of course if that's what you're referring to but they didn't represent the US as a country...
US splitting Korea is a bit like saying the US split Europe or Germany. It wasn't the plan at the time but the USSR wasn't going to let go of what they had occupied without it becoming ideologically aligned with them. The government that US supported carrying out purges is inexcusable of course but on the other hand but an even more brutal regime is now still in power in the North.
That said, post-WW2 USA certainly did it's share of evil shit during the cold war. It's just that the other side of that was still generally worse and USA got somewhat better over time. Now all that seems to be out the window.
I don’t know what you’re referring to with “selling weapons to the nazis”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
Sorry, converted factories in nazi germany to make weapons, while also continuing to sell nazi germany materials and financial services integral to their effort.
Same with praising fascism
He was literally Time's Man Of The Year in 1938; fascism was seen as the answer to communism.
USSR wasn’t going to let go of what they had occupied without it becoming ideologically aligned with them
It was ideologically aligned with them because they liberated the people and increased their standards of living by simply removing the Japanese and holding real elections.
South Korea could not be allowed democracy until like the 90s because the US-backed regime would immediately be ousted and probably executed for putting Japanese collaborators in positions of power and massacring entire villages due to concerns they would (rightfully) side with the communists when they invaded the north.
other side of that was still generally worse
Yeah no, the US was literally genocidal in Korea and Indonesia and Vietnam. The singular time that the US was not worse than what we were fighting was when we ended up opposed to the nazis.
Sorry, converted factories in nazi germany to make weapons, while also continuing to sell nazi germany materials and financial services integral to their effort.
Where in particular do you see weapons factories mentioned in that? Some businesses continuing to operate in Nazi Germany, sure. Fairly far from the initial claim though.
He was literally Time’s Man Of The Year in 1938; fascism was seen as the answer to communism.
Time magazine man of the year has never been about making an endorsement. He wasn't portrayed as an answer to communism in the article but as a threat: https://marcuse.faculty.history.ucsb.edu/projects/hitler/sources/30s/391time/391timemanyear.htm
It was ideologically aligned with them because they liberated the people and increased their standards of living by simply removing the Japanese and holding real elections.
Yeah... that's not at all accurate. There were no real elections. A hand-picked leader who was loyal to Moscow by the Soviets. Communist as a requirement. Wasn't great from the start and especially in the long run North Korea really has in fact proven to be the worse option...
Because it freed up government military spending, which we could use for healthcare, infrastructure, social security and education instead.
It’s not true. Military spending during the Cold War in Europe was substantial. It changed after 1990.
True.
But if we still had the standing armies, materiel and weapons manufacturers that we had during the Cold War, we and Ukraine would be much better off.
The problem is that we gave up on those, and it takes too long to get back on that level.
I love your username
Because for a time with all its faults it was the best option. The world becoming multipolar with most strong players not being committed to rule of law or democracy will have some pretty significant consequences...
rule of law or democracy
??? "Rule of Law" has always meant obeying America, democracy always meant aligned with US interests.
Looking at all the lawlessness of the Trump administration with regards international law and how it is returning to "gunboat diplomacy" I think that position is a bit difficult to defend as being the only thing it has done.
More nuanced arguments can be made but it is a fact that we can just look at how things were historically if we want to see what the world will look like when there's no international law or norms.
Democracy has certainly meant a lot more than just that to the countless people who got out of nondemocratic regimes imposed on them against their will. So much so that even the modern authoritarian tries to pretend he is supporting democracy by holding sham elections etc.
we can just look at how things were historically
Correct, we can look at the dictators America put in place via coup, then kept in power with military aid over the last century.
The only difference is that you're starting to notice it, but you will go back to brunch like all the other libs if Gavin Newsome wins in 2028, and continues 98% of Trumps policies, the same way Biden did, the same way Obama did for Bush.
Democracy has certainly meant a lot more than just that to the countless people who got out of nondemocratic regimes
When westerners talk about democracy, they're not talking about Cuba, Vietnam, Venezuala, Bolivia, China, countries whose governments are overwhelmingly popular because they enact the will of their people, they're talking about countries whose rulers do what US capital wants.
I agree the shit during cold war was bad and it was good that we had moved past that. Unfortunately it looks like that and worse is now again on the table for USA. What I was really talking about was even further back than that though. The real period of no international norms whatsoever, pre-WW1.
But yeah, I can see you're one of those tankies who only wants to desperately see one thing so probably not worth continuing.
74% consider the UK to be a trustworthy partner
40% consider Ukraine to be a trustworthy partner
These are just the wrong way around. The UK still behaves like a US colony whenever there is any sort of conflict.
Just look at recent conflicts. Venezuela was the US alone and the UK was somewhat critical, they are somewhat moving away from Israel, but not quickly, Ukraine support is something to be expected from any European country and the UK has been very vocal about that.
Ukraine on the other hand bombed German infrstructure with the NordStream attacks.
Just complete nonsense. Starmer basically said "eh we dont care" about venezuela and refused to comment. The thought police are imprisoning hundreds of people for made up terrorist charges with their palestine action ban. The nord stream attack was carried out by ukrainian citizens but iirc hasnt been directly linked to the government.
Most nations in Europe and the EU didn't manage much more than that so it's really no reason for the Germans to distrust UK when they're doing the same thing... and the reason is that European security is still strongly dependent on the USA, unfortunately.
Starmer basically said “eh we dont care” about venezuela and refused to comment.
And Starmer is the only powerfull UK politican.
The thought police are imprisoning hundreds of people for made up terrorist charges with their palestine action ban.
And we still saw them stoping weapons deliveries, continue support for UNRWA, agree to arrest Netanyahu and so forth.
The nord stream attack was carried out by ukrainian citizens but iirc hasnt been directly linked to the government.
By Ukrainian citizens with links to Ukraines special forces, which Ukraine refuses to hand over to Germany for due process and were moved out of Poland by the Ukranian embassy. Even if Zelensky did not approve it, it is still a clear sign that Ukraine considers Germany an enemy.
Better question: why should Germany have kept funding Russia via Nordstream?
The bombing of the Nordstream pipelines did not stop Germany funding Russia via Nordstream, as Germany was not funding Russia via Nordstream at the time. The pipeline was shut down and remains so, even though one of the four pipelines was not bombed. Russian gas was flowing to the EU via Ukraine for years after the bombing of the Nordstream pipelines.
You didn't answer the question.
Germany and the EU need gas and it can be delivered via Nordstream from Russia. Paying for that is only fair. Obviously only as long as Russia does not fight large wars of aggression. That is why Nordstream was shut down for nearly a month before it got bombed. However Russia can change and having the ability to import Russian gas is very useful.
Same fam.
Americans have decided this too. Just saw an interview with Jesse Ventura... who declared that the USA is now a 3rd world country thanks to Republicans... and he used to be a Republican!
Aber sowas von.
A little late to be honest
If the discourse goes like this, if we choose to communicate at that level, anthropomorphize nation states like this as if it meant nothing we don’t deserve better.
Let’s get fucking educated again
Who hasn't?
So have Americans.