We Need to Stick Together!
7d 9h ago by piefed.ca/u/Sunshine in buyeuropean@feddit.uk from media.piefed.ca
Would you rather fight 27 country sized eu members or 1 eu sized country?
Do I get prep time?
I'd say "Questions Putin should have asked", Trebek!
A unified front is always stronger than piecemeal.
No it's not. That's why WW2 was different than WW1.
Ah yes, because WWII would have totally gone better if the Allies hadn't been unified... /s
When nations are disunited, they can be picked apart one at a time by a hostile force. When they work together to form an alliance, they can present a stronger resistance to deter or repel the enemy's invasion before it even reaches allied territory.
That's why russia hates NATO so much. Putin can't have Europe as long as European nations stand together in a strong defense coalition.
Watch your russian flag dude. Poland resisted 120 years with you fuckers.
Watch your mouth, you hypocrite. russia would love nothing more than for Europe to be disunited. You're the one pulling water for the kremlin, not me.
Thanks for confirming you're human dude. You never know these days.
27
That’s why the US tries to deteriorate
ohoh i've always wanted to say this
it's the same picture/thing
yayayayayayayay
Why else do you think Putin and now his puppet wants it broken up?
Apes together strong
“Individually we are weak, like a single twig, but as a bundle we form a mighty removed!”
The Latin for "bundle" is fasces and this is the origin of the term "fascism".
It's also the root of the term myofascia, a type of muscle tissue. But that doesn't make all motile organisms fascist.
Playing with semantics to prove a point is merely sophistry
Playing with semantics to prove a point is merely sophistry
I'm sorry you think I'm trying to make a point, I think it's just fun word knowledge. In any case, fascism is populism, coopting language on symbols that have been used for centuries before. US symbolism is full of symbols of the fasces.
I see. I wasn't sure if you were trying to say it's fascism to band together, which it certainly isn't. Fascists do band together, but the only way to defeat them is to band together as well. Fascists also eat food and drink water, but that doesn't mean eating food and drinking water is inherently fascist.
Also, not all populism is fascistic. Fascism is right-wing, authoritarian, militaristic, nationalistic populism. If it's missing any of those characteristics, it's something else, although maybe still something bad. And most of those characteristics usually come together anyway, in a bundle. Typically also with reactionary sensationalism.
One can theoretically have a left-wing populism that's pacifistic, cosmopolitan, and democratic (or perhaps anarcho-syndicalist). That would be an example of non-fascistic populism.
And yes, fascism does co-opt language and symbols, which is one of its biggest disgraces (though not its biggest atrocity). But that doesn't make those language and symbols inherently fascistic. A Zen temple displaying the manji or a Hindu home with a swastika doesn't make them nazis. That symbol belongs to those cultures, it was stolen (appropriated) by the fascists and corrupted into a symbol of hatred and violence, but that doesn't erase the thousands of years of history and culture that that symbol has in the East.
Likewise, fascists were obsessed with ancient mythologies (Greek, Norse, etc.), even Hebrew mysticism, and appropriated a lot of symbols and concepts from those. But that doesn't make those mythologies inherently fascist, and it's entirely possible to have an interest in and study them while also abhoring everything fascism stands for.
People like to accept simplistic definitions of fascism, because it is difficult to define, but that does a disservice because they might overlook the essential components while fixating on auxiliary ones. That's how people end up shunning someone for having an interest in ancient mythology, while simultaneously falling for the personality cult of a right-wing jingo-nationalist. It misses the point entirely.
A Fasces was also a symbol of Roman authority. Usually a bundle of twigs bound by metal rings used by soldiers to beat people.
Why else do you think Putin and now his puppet wants it broken up?
Putin would need a strong Europe to persist together against the US. The US needs a weak Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
This "grand chessboard" is a game played by people who are too "powerful" to matter. fuck 'em and shoot 'em.
As an American, I want the US to be no more of a superpower than the EU, China, or Zimbabwe. We did this posturing in middle school. Has the whole world not evolved past that yet?!
We'll be better served when we can be cooperative instead of competitive.
I approve of a strong EU. The more "players", the less power each has, but also the less each has to gain or lose by being an asshole.
We just need a plan to unite without leaving room for a few idiots to get elected and wreck the whole thing,
I had a look at some stats regarding how EU citizens perceive the EU. I found this recent EU survey which interestingly shows that EU citizens trust the EU more than they trust their national governments:
Also that link says that "74% say that, taking everything into account, their country has benefited from being a member of the EU". So perhaps the EU will survive and strengthen, despite its critics like those in the Trump administration.
Ugh, I need more good stats like these. Thanks!
Apes together strong!
Most people in the smaller EU countries are very keenly aware that without the power of the group to face the World's large countries they would be nothing more than footballs for the big powers, same as before the EU.
It's not by chance that the only country to ever leave was big-sized (in Europe terms, but mid-sized in World terms) one with nationalistic delusions of grandeur leftover from the time when they headed an Empire.
That’s ironic, in a way, that there’s no Ukraine among those flags. Adding it would actually make the EU much stronger. A real life modern war experience (literally the most experienced country on the planet), plus the biggest country in Europe. With quite a large international community of emigrants (due to harsh historical circumstances). Plus experience filtering Russian propaganda, which is quite strong and influential (for those unaware).
Putin also knows how strong Europe would be with Ukraine, which is likely why he is so hell bent on destabilising the bloc and taking Ukraine for himself. The sad part is it seems to be working for him. Even if he doesn't get Ukraine the way he hoped, the campaign to destabilise the bloc is worrying.
I agree that Ukraine would be a good addition to the EU (I hope that both the war and the EU join process will finish), but this meme is just about the EU not being a federation yet, so there's no reason to add the Ukrainian flag now.
I’m not sure on the federation thing (I just don’t understand how it would work for the EU), but I’m 100% sure when Russia would become a set of independent states (and not a federation it pretends it is), global terrorism would just go incredibly less, within one day, literally. They contribute to global chaos quite a lot. Especially backed by PRC and the US (administration) being a Russian puppet.
What do you Mean? It won't work without federalisation. With a federal EU, we would have a united military force, united economics, united international politics. Actually having a say in the global world as it is changing/collapsing. This is what canada, Mexico and australia is envy at us right now.. We have the chance to be a 3rd superpower, instead of 27 sepperate nations, competing on who can suck trumps Dick the most.
I'm not quite sure where a federation would differ from what we already have? Would it be a unified codex of laws? Unified economy? Unified military?
I'm not convinced unified laws will ever work due to cultural and environmental differences. e.g. Sweden isn't necessarily going to agree to Italy's ideas on trafic laws, or incarceration methos.
If it's a unified economy, how do we differentiate between the different needs? Do we all adobt Poland's health care system? If we don't, and just continues doing healthcare however we want, is it fair if Belgium needs more money per person for healthcare then Spain in the unified economy?
I can sorta see a unified military work, but that might very well just be because a complete lack of knowledge, and there may be some big differences around.
I think we are still way too different in culture to just accept anything more than what we have right now. It would just lead to massive divides like we see in USA, where massive cultural differences and differences in values are literally tearing the country apart.
That’s precisely what I meant. Thanks for putting that in words!
They want what the US has. Each state has their own laws for things like traffic and healthcare, and the federal government is supposed to deal with issues that affect multiple or every state, like common defence and interstate commerce.
The US is a bunch of murican states glued together.
The EU is a bunch of very different countries glued together.
We are not the same.
I don’t know if you are American, but the states are very different, economically and culturally. You can lump them together to form regions but they are essentially a few little countries stitched together.
Yiu think the current veto system works?
I don’t challenge that point, all I mean is that I have no idea how this is going to work, meaning details of that. Europe is united already, isn’t it? With the exception of the Russian puppets like Orban or Fico. That’s why I see little actual difference. The EU is already the superpower, isn’t it?
No. Unlike the US or China, the EU is made up of very different countries. Some things can't be fixed easily (i.e. different languages) but others can and should be (single military, unified laws, etc.)
With a federal EU, we would have
Even more centralized control by France and Germany. No thanks.
Nothing against better cooperation though.
I think this is too easy to say. We can create our own federal system, thqt makes all countries have a vote. But ofc, the biggest communities/populations should count for more. I mean, wouldn't be fair to compare 6 million People voting power (denmark) to 80mil+ germany. I seriously don't see this as a problem. We have to be democratic about this, and trust the process.
the biggest communities/populations should count for more
Screwing over the smaller ones.
No thanks.
I'm kinda curious, why not?
So when the US trained and armed terrorists all over the world under every previous administration, was it still due to orders to the Kremlin? Or did the Kremlin order the Trump administration to do the thing we've been doing for a century?
Putin: Agent Trump, we need you to genocide Muslims, overthrow governments in South America, prepare for war with communists, and oppress brown people back home.
Trump: Don't tell me how to do my fucking job.
Europe is a vassal state of the US, as we're seeing with Venezuela now.
We even saw this with trade negotiations in 2025, where after Trump applied tariffs to the EU following the Big Bootycheeks Bill and the EU retaliated, that retaliation swiftly went away as Trump forced Europe to buy Americans' food, technology, cars, and energy, to invest in US businesses, to loosen the EU's policies towards good corporate governance and sustainable as it applies to US businesses doing trade in Europe, as well as an assortment of other actions.
So while you might believe that a United Europe can stand up to the US and China, you forget how much the EU relies on both of them. Yes, including China, which the EU would be smart to build ties with as the becomes more and more the 4th Reich.
If I want to purchase well made goods, I always look to Europe. The new watch band I got for Christmas came from a European maker (Watch-straps). The headphones I purchased last year came from Europe (Fairphone). The undershirts, underwear, and socks I bought last year all came from Europe (Dedicated).
Europe has some of the best policies in the world for fair trade and good economic production, sans socialism in China.
Just don't forget where the EU sits on the global stage. It's not on the same level as the US and China, two superpowers.
I think calling it a vassal state is a bit hyperbolic. Large powers such as the US or China can exert massive political force on any country, even each other. Sometimes it's better to give up your lunch money than be forced to take out your card and empty your bank account. And because the US has traditionally been an ally of Europe, the two are well connected and thus have many contact points to be pressured in (Especially points that hurt, like defense). Points that the EU might want to keep quiet on until they can bear the pressure, especially since the US is currently led by a felon with the mind of a child that wages wars for tantrums.
The EU has kept it's direction, which has always been further ahead of the US in terms like voting rights, healthcare, and life satisfaction, but the US has now taken a stark turn diverging from that path. Sure there are politicians in the EU that like to be US bootlickers, but even those are not a particular fan of what Trump is doing. We do have Hungary, and some others, but those are far too outnumbered to be considered to be making a vassal state out of Europe.
Europe definitely has the capacity to be a super power, but indeed we can only do it together. And lets not forget that China and the US also depend on Europe for a lot. If you look at trade, we are effectively equals.
China isn't socialist though, I'm sick of both tankies and right wingers many pretending that it is.
Edit: being less of a dick about differing opinions.
Seriously, they do capitalism better than the west.
China isn't socialist though
Just to be clear, we're distinguishing between socialism and communism, right?
Communism being the end goal of socialism, which is a stateless, moneyless, classless, borderless society, one that only exists only after the entire world also becomes communist and snuffs out capitalism from every country on the planet.
China has a socialist market economy. Just because it has a market economy doesn't mean that this doesn't make it socialist. The public sector still dominates, as 24 out of the 25 largest corporations are state owned. There are other examples of socialist characteristics that I'm too lazy to post here.
Also, I'm not a tankie. All states are evil, but China is far less imperialistic that the US and Russia.
I'm not a tankie
Fair enough, I was being a bit obtuse with this one. Apologies.
China is far less imperialistic that the US and Russia.
Agree. Of the 3 China (at the moment) is the least imperialistic.
Just to be clear, we're distinguishing between socialism and communism, right?
Nope. I mean what I said. The wealth inequality is massive, similar to the US. The work rights are pretty crap, similar to the US (maybe even worse, though I wouldn't want to say that authoritatively)
Having a capitalist market economy is kinda antithetical socialism, no? Well, at least what they currently have, with the excessive wealth people have been allowed to amass, on the backs of the working class who have shared in a much, much smaller fraction of the wealth they have generated.
They have a lot of state owned and run companies, many of which don't have the primary aim only to make a profit (love this), but this doesn't change the fact that the class system is in full swing there, and is permitted by the government.
Pressuring officials and rich people to be less austentatious isn't exactly taking away the power people have due to their excessive wealth.
It's been decades, I think they've let enough people get rich first (though I disagree that this was necessary - the letting people get excessively wealthy part, not the reform in general), it's about time they do SOMETHING to curb wealth inequality (they won't though, because this would cause an uproar from the wealthy, as is the case in other countries)
They don't have a true union movement, all unions must be part of the party. Strikes are done, but very rarely and in spite of the unions, and they are barely tolerated by the authorities. There is very little, if any, difference between how much workers there have a say in their workplace compared to other capitalist countries.
They don't have meaningful power over government policy. That's handed down from on-high from the party elite (yes, with some minor consultation). China is not democratic, and in my view socialism must have workers democracy, by definition, though perhaps some will disagree with this. (But to me saying the word socialism implies rule of the workers, and that is definitely not what is happening in China)
Hope that clears things up about my opinion, and thanks for not responding to my inflammatory comment with more of the same. Sorry for my candor on this one.
Saying Europe is a US vassal state is a bit much lol. Europe is one of the biggest economic powers in the world together with the US and China. They all export and import a lot of wares between each other and thus depend on each other. The tariff deal the EU got with the US wasn't that great and the leader of the European commission, Ursula von der Leyen, got some backlash because of that but I guess her tactic was to just appease Trump so they will have more time to transition away from the US in some areas. On the other hand that deal reduced some very annoying tariffs on steel and car parts, so it was partially successful.
transition away from the US
And transition to China 🙂
As an American, someone please smash the USA cube into a million pieces
I feel them same but also feel guilty advocating for it because I live in a food producing state with lots of clean water (for now) and we would probably fare better than a lot of places because of that.
I don't want anyone to suffer but I also don't know that there is a way through all that's going on where suffering on a large scale isn't inevitable.
Guess who that someone is
Second biggest economy in the world by GDP and PPP.
Hey guys, got a room for a Canada in there?
Always do. Always do!
Bring the maple syrup.
It would be hard to build a railway tunnel there
Very reasonable, but unfortunately not feasible with the chancellor of my home country, Germany. Friedrich Merz is nothing but a US lobbyist and definitely not a representative of the people. How can we get rid of corrupt politicians like that? I fear that things will even get much worse in Germany soon, because the fascist AfD, which in my opinion is nothing more than a front for US billionaires, will probably be the strongest force in our country, since the same social media platforms are at work here as in the US - with the same owners. But first, here is an excerpt from the CV of the current German chancellor, which should illustrate what I mean:
Friedrich Merz (born November 11, 1955, in Brilon), tenth Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany since May 6, 2025, CDU federal chairman since 2022, former business lawyer and long-time top lobbyist, has held leadership positions in a number of companies and business-related interest groups and networks. [1] Until the end of 2021, Merz was vice president of the CDU's business lobby group, the Economic Council, and a guest member of the presidium of the Small and Medium-Sized Business and Economic Union (MIT). In 2022, the MIT welcomed Merz's election as CDU chairman and stated that he was the first chairman to be a member of the MIT.[4] Armin Peter, most recently deputy press spokesman for the Economic Council and press spokesman for the then Economic Council Vice President Merz, has been deputy spokesman for the CDU and personal press spokesman for Merz since February 2022.[5] [6] Merz continues to be a member of the following organizations: Founding member of the New York section of the CDU Economic Council,[7] lobby organization Society for the Study of Structural Policy Issues,[8] Ludwig Erhard Foundation network, which brings together lobbyists and top politicians. Merz worked as senior counsel for the law firm Mayer Brown LLP until the end of 2021; prior to that, he was a partner for nine years.[9] During his time at Mayer Brown, he advised clients on corporate law, M&A transactions, compliance, and banking and finance law. According to research by CORRECTIV, he represented BASF as a lawyer on several occasions in 2010 and 2011. [10] He was a member of the board of directors at BASF Antwerp for almost a decade, where he headed the "Paints & Pigments" division of the BASF Group. From 2009 to 2019, Merz was chairman of Atlantik-Brücke [11] and from 2016 to 2020, he was chairman of the supervisory board of the German branch of asset manager BlackRock, for which he mediated relationships with important clients, authorities, and government agencies in Germany. [12] He was active in the Market Economy Foundation as a member of the Political Advisory Board of the Tax Code Commission. [13] In connection with his candidacy for the CDU party chairmanship, Merz ended his role as chairman of the supervisory board of Blackrock at the end of the first quarter of 2020.[14][15] At the 2021 CDU party conference, he lost a digital runoff election to his rival Armin Laschet. At the party conference on January 22, 2022, he was elected chairman of the CDU with 94.62% of the delegates' votes. [16] On September 23, 2024, Merz was officially nominated as the CDU and CSU's candidate for chancellor in the next federal election. [17]
[Translated from German | Source with source references]
The situation is pretty much identical in France. It should be noted that European Union was pretty much designed by the USA so its propensity to favor US positions and to fail to unite and thrive is by design.
Yes, I agree, but I currently see limited hope of reopening the issue in our interest. For the situation in Germany, however, there is actually a chance: the party name AfD illustrates that, it stands for Alternative for Germany. The main reason why people vote for this Neonazi party is this: they present themselves as an alternative to the corrupt, established parties, and they sell themselves well with the support of billionaires (Zuckerberg, Musk, an the like). Although this is just a facade for even more neoliberal, even more US-centric politics, the core of their success could be utilized: people long for different politics. This is where a European party could come in, a party that represents the interests of Europeans and their values - for example no more support for genocide in Palestin. This is, of course, just an example, and I am aware that there are already European parties, but I think they could actually be the alternative to US lobby politics that people apparently want, a real alternative to the usual nationalist politics that bring us nothing but lobbying and dependence on supposed but unscrupulous allies.
Interesting. I don't know German politics and parties well. Here in France the far right has abandoned anti-eu positions much like Meloni in Italy. They try to appeal simultaneously to the french who are against EU (due to its weaknesses, corruption and anti democratic nature), and to the business and finance which is pro EU. It is contradictory but they act in favor of the latter and build the opposite image with the help of billionaire owned media.
Volt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa
Here's the Grokipedia article:
Friedrich Merz (born 11 November 1955) is a German lawyer and politician serving as Chancellor of Germany since 6 May 2025 and chairman of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) since January 2022.[1][2][3] Born in Brilon, North Rhine-Westphalia, to a family with judicial and political ties, Merz studied law at the universities of Bonn and Saarland, qualifying as a judge before entering private practice as an attorney specializing in corporate and mergers-and-acquisitions matters.[1][2] His professional career included senior roles at the international law firm Mayer Brown and chairmanship of the supervisory board at BlackRock Asset Management Deutschland AG, positions that underscored his expertise in finance and business regulation.[4][2] Merz joined the CDU as a teenager in 1972 and advanced through its ranks, serving as a Member of the European Parliament from 1989 to 1994 and representing the Hochsauerlandkreis district in the Bundestag from 1994 to 2009, during which he led the CDU/CSU parliamentary group from 2000 to 2002.[1][2] After departing electoral politics in 2009 to focus on corporate leadership, he re-entered in 2018, securing a Bundestag seat in 2021 and assuming CDU chairmanship amid the party's post-election introspection, positioning it as a proponent of market-oriented reforms and transatlantic security cooperation.[3][2] Leading the CDU/CSU to a plurality in the 23 February 2025 snap federal election following the collapse of the prior coalition, Merz negotiated a governing alliance and was elected chancellor in a second parliamentary ballot on 6 May 2025—the first such instance in postwar German history after an initial failure to secure an absolute majority.[3][5][6] Merz's tenure has emphasized fiscal discipline, bolstering NATO commitments, and addressing migration pressures through stricter enforcement, reflecting his long-standing conservative stance on economic competitiveness and rule-of-law priorities.[3][7]
Source: https://grokipedia.com/page/Friedrich_Merz
If we have to pay the same price for being as big as China and the US, would it be worth it?
Having an elite that is beyond democratic control is not worth fighting for. We could as well join one of the big cubes.
We should try to strengthen democracy and freedom and find ways to succeed with that.
In a global capitalist order, you don't get to strengthen your democracy without achieving a mostly independent economy first (or somewhat simultaneously.) One that produces the vast majority of the commodities your people need for their daily lives. If you don't have that, you'd get subordinated by the large capitalist countries as they run out of value they can extract domestically or elsewhere. For example you'd get sanctioned into investing billions into their economy and buying from it at higher prices instead of investing that domestically. Then your democracy gets fucked because it doesn't deliver the life improvements its subjects vote for.
This is why you need the union, as not a single European country is sufficiently self-sufficient. The union isn't sufficiently self-sufficient either but it can get there faster and easier than individual countries. And it doesn't have to develop an unaccountable elite. Mind you it already has one. The opposite, it has to .. eat it .. in order to make the job easier by stopping the siphoning and misallocation of resources needed for development.
I totally agree, but I don't think that's what is being proposed. There is more than one way to become the 'big cube', and we should seek for one that embodies the freedom and peace of Europe, not try to imitate that which has been tried unsuccessfully.
China & US have not paid the same price. I believe their paths aren't required to reach your goal of strengthening democracy and freedom. The alternative appears to be the plight of Venezuela, however.
Well said.
in the states our history lessons are inadequate at best, false at worst, especially re: europe
has there ever been a point in history when all of europe was united? because now is a good time to keep that being the case
Roman empire.
Third reich but that didn't last long.
Napoleon french empire but that didn't last long either.
Peacefully united? Never before as far as I know.
For semi united, let's not forget Charlemagne and Charles V of the HRE.
Edit: minor changes
peacefully united would be ideal, but with what's going on with amerikkka and putinland, "common goals" might have to be good enough..
Napoleon french empire but that didn't last long either.
I blame Sharpe...
Roman empire.
Close but no...
Third reich but that didn't last long.
Is this some nazi fever dream? One half of the continent was at war with the other and you're talking a about unity?
Napoleon french empire but that didn't last long either.
No you just look at what the largest possible administrative borders ever were in Europe, then those 3 pop out with very large territory with what one could call a single very large exterior border. There was 0 acceptance or rejection or any other way of valueing the situation whilst any of these borders, just a look at maximum extent of administrative borders, everything else is value you imply onto it.
Europe has different interests, it's notorious in South/North separation (Catholics/Protesters)
They are teaching: "South is full of racial contamination" because they couldn't deny the empires like they are doing related to Africa. They are teaching: "Church of Catholics is the whore Babilonia in Armaggedon".
Do you belive Europe could be united under these views?
I hope the Protesters pun was deliberate 😁
well, I mean thats what protestant means. its still used today obviously, but it originally was a handful of different christian faiths that protested things that were being pushed against reformation, specifically the Diet of 1526
And 1517 with Martin and his points :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1984%27s_Geopolitics.png
The three fictional superstates of the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four are Oceania (black), Eurasia (red), and Eastasia (yellow). 'Disputed territories' are indicated in grey.
Orwell may have gotten the borders wrong but more and more each day it feels like everything else is lining up for the conditions in 1984.
Trailing / does not work for me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1984%27s_Geopolitics.png
Fixed, thank you for your public service.
Trump wants the Americas.
Putin wants Europe.
Jinping wants Asia.
Well someone tell them they can't have it.
Well...they can't have 'em!
Nice picture. Thank you, Sunshine.
To further drive the point home, it could have the US and China kicking around and crushing the little countries in the top half.
This is precisely why the US loves to balkanize big countries.
Balkanize. Bulkanize would probably be the opposite :D Look at that bulky Euro cube!
UK resident here. So very many of is voted for Brexit. If we don't succumb to Garages bullshit (as a nation), please accept us back into Europe. Cameron, Johnson and all their cronies are finally getting called out by many of those who voted to leave.
My opinion on this is, that we should take the UK back. This being said, I think the UK should not be allowed to get any opt-outs from EU legislation as they had before (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_opt-outs_from_EU_legislation). If they want to become a member of the EU again, they should go full in.
I think that's fair. We cannot be a cat. Either go in or stay out. No sitting in the doorway demanding (ego) stroking.
Honestly, I don't think any of those would be deal breakers today. Europe is now tougher on external migration (much more in line with the UK), the pound is no longer much more powerful than the euro, and the privacy legislation of both is equally concerning so no issues there beyond the normal.
We'd certainly prefer the stronger EU ruling against "pay or ok" under GDPR, and a lot of UK citizens would appreciate the greater mobility.
I would like to suggest that the EU also demand that Nigel Farage be formally charged for misleading the public, in a European court.
Where is France?
It’s there.
That's disappointing
Next to Poland
It took me some time. Thank you.
Russia has more than 80 oblasts and republiques, China is a huge land, USA too...
Europe, in comparison, us really small. Seriously, a teacher teached us that the complete Europe is practically our country (Argentina). Then, you don't have opportunity in a separated forn. But you must cooperate positively with others (abandoning the colonialism). USA, China and Russia are the doom of world.
Evidently, we need to explore another options that it's not to submit to dictatorships but to live a good human life.
Seriously, a teacher teached us that the complete Europe is practically our country (Argentina)
At time of writing, the EU is 4 million km², Argentina's land area is 2,780,085 km². The whole continent of Europe is about 10,014,000 km². Depending on when you were taught this factoid, your teacher was not correct.
complete Europe is practically our country (Argentina).
By area Argentina is 66% of EU and EU is 43% of USA. Although Argentina is still the 8th.
The whole continent of Europe is a little bit larger than the USA. At least with how it is defined on Wikipedia (Ural mountain/river as border) and Russia would cover 39% of that area.
Surely you cannot compare Argentina to a bloc with almost 10 times the population and 31 times the GDP.
To further illustrate, approximately:
- Population-wise, the EU is to Argentina as Argentina is to Panama.
- GDP-wise, the EU is to Argentina as Argentina is to Nicaragua.
Quantity is not quality.
Unfortunately that requires the capability to deter using force. We are all still aggressive territorial chimps, only now we are chimps capable of creating portable stars.
Unless you find a way to convince biologically/inherently violent people to calm the fuck down and listen, your vision of not submitting to dictatorships and living peacefully by simply asking nicely will never work .
Bonobo chimps use sex to calm the males down, which allows them to live so fucking peacefully among other chimp tribes. If only contemporary society was so open to such a concept.
That's...not going to work on humans. Maybe world leaders, but not the masses.
Think a little less directly, meeting people's needs vs bombing them. In the US, ~6 hours of "defense" spending could put everyone in the country on food stamps for a year
That works, somewhat.
But if you tell a person "I'm going to fuck you, calm down" they just call the police, or deck you in the face.
Meanwhile the European countries with legalized brothels/prostitution dont spend enormous amounts of money on their own defense budget and are chill af to visit as a tourist.
The correlation not causation thing...
Fine. Ngl, sex work is illegal here, period. Probably for the best.
Yeah, we have 5000 plus years of culture engrained into us about male control of women, so women using sex to pacify males, probably won’t work.
Bonobo
Great DJ.
No. The force is limited. Donald Trump is pure Yang... but energic tactics are costly. Trumps causes a negative reaction and he puts the people in risk. For example, Europe is considering new diplomacy.
USA is a giant... but with mud feet. Dollars go out, gold bars go in. Gadafi bye bye... but we keep buying gold bars and selling dollars.
Global militar bases are really expensive. How much time you believe USA can keep it? Without global money, in horrible debt and without allies. And with California and others thinking if to be part of this country (USA) is convenient really. See Texit and Calexit.
We need to get rid of the veto power.
Even if it could mean the end of Hungary as we know it, given the decades of root-taking that Fidesz and Orban have been doing.
We might have the chance to vote Orbán out next March, but I'm still skeptical tbh, because Fidesz always outperformed the polls.
Unfortunately my local friends don't want to vote at all, but let's hope. t. hungarian
Having lived there a long time ago I remain with the question: is the alternative any good or even just better?
What your local friends do has bred a political class that only seeks appeal among very old voters and voting boomers or those boomers prefer (like Meloni in Italy) is always the worst one can do.
Well the most popular alternative feels like a Fidesz 2 to me, and also to a lot of my online + local friends.
It also operates on the one man popularism move, and the main figure is actually a recent ex-Fidesz guy. For some whatever reason the undecided mass believes in this party more than the 2022 coalition, so we unfortunately have to vote for this one, but imma leave the party vote part towards Kutyapárt for sure.
Even if this populist party turns out to be corrupt as well, they will still have to root out the old corrupt regime first and seed trust into the public first, so that doesn't leave them with much corruption ability imo.
There needs to be a few head rollings to have even half a chance at that bottom row
Why not smash those two empires instead?
Why are the cubes similar in size, that is very misleading.
In terms of GDP they're roughly equivalent
Yep, get stronger to face threat, that how imperialism work Fuck those states, everyone of them
so you submit to the empire that rules you…
No, I'm organized against without the support or supporting others
Yeah, you guys don't like big red imperialism or red white and blue imperialism. You just rather be complicit in both
How is any of this showing 'complicity' in anything? The EU was not involved in the attack to begin with, so how is them saying "Hey we're in contact with everyone involved, and we know that guy was a dictator and all, but this is definitely seems to be clashing with international law, please stop. PS. we look out for our citizens in the affected area" any such thing? That's as clear a condemnation you're going to get on literally the day that it happened, while details are still in the air.
Some people just love the word "complicity". As a result, it doesn't really mean anything anymore. If you used a computer today then you're complicit in child slavery, environmental degradation, and the global decline in interpersonal communication skills.
*shrugs in non-English*
The EU is on the verge of obsolescence. So is the US. We're all going to be China's bitches soon.
Hmmm, why would it be Europe and two imperialist powers...is there...a commonality between them all? 🧐
Could you explain?
Oh, I thought it'd be clear sorry. The EU is imperialist like the entities it is being compared to here.
How is China imperialist?
Besides the subordination of other spaces groups to the benefit of a centralised system of power? Do you have any idea how many distinct cultures exist within Chinese borders, willingly or otherwise (Tibet and Hong Kong). The Belt and Road Initiative utilises capitalistic tactics to strategically acquire vital colonial assets and in particular here, reformulates colonial spaces toward its interests. 53 countries in Africa have developed infrastructure projects that are always oriented toward economic benefit to the metropole.
Imperialism is not "big guy invades small guy," it is a system of power that disproportionately benefits a dominating group of people. Europeans rarely have to invade the countries they seek to colonize, they can simply secure their interests through selective investment and legal decision.
Still 2 vs 1.
It's 1v1v1.
Oh, EU separate from the US! So you support a dissolution of NATO? Or do you just want a US-aligned puppet Europe?
I want a Europe that is strong and stands for European values.
If the USA also follows those values we work together.
If they don't, we can do it without them.
But only if we in Europe are united!
European values.
That's a myth.
There may be baseline values like, dunno, humanity, other than that you can't have broad common values east to west north to south, countries are too different.
You are saying this on the day that the USA is illegally invading Venezuela and kidnapping their president. Where are European values? Where are the heavy condemnations of this?
I only just caught up on that. Absolutely disgusting. I continue to be deeply disappointed in current European leadership.
Vote Volt!
Different context, same judgement:
https://piefed.social/c/europe/p/1618638/who-is-this-politician-more-pro-european-tech-voices-in-the-eu-assembly-thank-you
How is Volt, a militaristic Eurocentrist party, going to do ANYTHING against US invasion of sovereign countries.
I honestly don't know how you can think Volt would support Trump's illegal invasion of anything. Let me break it down piece by piece.
You call Volt centrist, others call it radical. Volt may not be a traditional socialist or liberal party, but they are definitely not centrist on:
- opposing fascism
- regulating big tech, big agri and big oil
- universal basic income
- making innovative startups succeed in Europe
- any progressive/conservative issues really
- making Europe strong and independent
Volt oppose the current increase in military spending, instead wanting a single big European Army instead of 27 small ones. Overall military spending in Europe was already OK, the reason we are not as strong as the US militarily is because 27 small armies are not the same as one big army.
I don't know what your opinion on these topics is, but it seems evident to me that in order to stand up against the USA, Russia and China, we need to have a military deterrent. If you consider that, or supporting Ukraine, militaristic, then I don't mind you calling me militaristic.
Volt has always opposed fascism in all its forms. AfD, Netanyahu, Trump, US Big Tech influence in Europe, etc. They will never support Trump illegally invading a sovereign country.
Are you confusing military alliance with unions? Isn't US essentially a union?
Where are the strong political condemnations from the EU or economic sanctions to the US for the invasion of a foreign country?
Are you seriously asking why EU sides with US instead of Maduro regime?
So far I see only Russia, Iran and China defending Maduro.
Colombia and Brazil are defending Maduro.
And yes, I'm asking why Europe sides with the US in the glaringly illegal abduction of a foreign president
People (note that I'm saying people, not whatever authoritarian figure you simp for) are celebrating this, from Brazil, to Colombia, and in Venezuela. Get a grip.
Get a grip.
Get better sources.
Hahahaha Lula da Silva and Gustavo Petro, the democratically elected prime ministers of both countries, are authoritarian figures. Average European lmfao
Then maybe obviously I meant it as "authority", not "dictatorship"? What people want versus what the higher ups want. Police is also authority. That word has multiple definitions my dude. Context matters.
Authority is a different word from authoritarian, and you clearly used the latter. You're the one bringing up which country does or doesn't support Maduro, so don't try to scurry out of it.
Please re-read my comment. I don't know what else to tell you.
There is no definition of "authoritarian" as "authority" in common English language, you're trying to redefine words. The word you mean is "authority figure" or "authoritative".
https://fiveable.me/key-terms/ap-psych-revised/authoritarian-figures
Having authority over most of the subjects means being an authoritarian figure amongst those subjects. How much of an authoritarian a leader is, is another question. When I said "authority versus people", again, I quite clearly meant voices of people versus voices of prime ministers and presidents who probably have different dealings going on.
The word "figure" plays a rather important role, as I never said "authoritarians".
Soviet Union then. Been there, my parents starve, fuck this shit. If ever Europe gives up their countries sovereignty I am fucking moving out as fast as I can because there won't be discussion if we want scan chat messages or not. Everything will be pushed against people who will mean nothing like they mean nothing in those two other countries. Go fuck yourself and your megalomania.
Why would you think that the European Union would be become like the USSR? It appears to be a frustrating bureaucracy at times, but I never got the impression that member states had to give up any significant amount of sovereignty.
That's the WEF agenda. One tax system, one European army, one Europan country. Ein Reich. Name it like you want.
We have this in the US but the states have a significant amount of sovereignty in law making. Most laws are local. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying I don’t think it has to go down that route.
In all European countries I know laws are local too. The difference in European Union right now is that currently all countries need to agree to pass new law. EU parliament have no decision. It's always consensus. That means discussion. Consensus is good. Drop discussion you will end up with big countries that pass the laws against smaller countries. Why ? Because number of people in EU parliament from your country is determined by your country population size. Look up table and amount of seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_European_Parliament_election You need just top 5 countries to get majority of votes.
The EU is still an oppressive imperialist power stop glamorizing it.
You are colony of USA, your leaders have no spine, your govt is run by zionists. You are basically fucked as you lost all your colonies in africa.
Europe is fuck fucked
Everywhere is currently fucked but hopefully not unavoidably.
Earth should explode atp. Its over
Yeahhhh, no...
China's wet dream or what?
At this point, I'm so miserable, that I agree, and accept our new Chinese overlords. We lost the fight for humanity long ago, I at least want to live a bit.
Nope, the EU population is larger than the US, where we are lacking is in our military power.
And are ramping up, faster than I would have believed possible 5 years ago.
It's almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn't a newcomer, I just hope it won't go to our heads, and that's where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only "good" things will come out of it all.
OK so you are a evronationalist militarist, nice to know there are so many right-wingers on Lemmy now... ( ,,⩌'︿'⩌,,)
Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don't use it, you can't expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic. Also, don't accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it's just childish and not better than attacking them
Well, you kinda need military power
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
Also, don't accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it's just childish and not better than attacking them
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
@JustJack23@slrpnk.net wrote:
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military
You're right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn't all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you're a genius!
military strength without having very big military see Switzerland
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it's still comparable per capita to most European countries
How many of those weapons are going to end up in Israel's hands?
Weird strawman...
It's not a "strawman." I understand that most people on here don't want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it's in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there's a significant likelihood they'll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
The fact that nobody mentioned Israel is the point. I stg. It isn't a "strawman" to point out possible unintended consequences of supporting a policy.
"I think I should jump off a tall building."
"Are you crazy? You'll die!"
"Wow, what a strawman. Nobody even said anything about dying. I don't support falling to my death, only the jumping."
Congratulations, that is one of the stupidest arguments I have read.
Go learn what the word "strawman" means before you call anybody's arguments stupid lmao.
Eh, my fault for expecting a decent argument with a .ml user.
Stop strawmanning me then.
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it's pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don't see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I'll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
I'll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best
Have you lived in Europe for the past 20 years? European "Social" "Democracy" has led only to the destruction of welfare state, worker rights, increasing of retirement age, and collapse of salaries, and whoever tries to deviate from that by being further left (Syriza, Podemos, LFI) gets couped out of power, whereas far right governments rule without issues in half of the continent
I am living in Sweden, I have done so for the last 38 year after being born.
I have witnessed the all of that.
I stand by what I said, including the part of regulated free markets which you didn't bring up.
I absolutely disagree with how Socialdemokraterna moved away from the ideology of Social democracy.
However, this does not change my views of the ideology, only the politicians who has failed it.
Social democracy requires strong leaders who can withstand trends pulling in either direction.
"I've seen with my own eyes social democracy failing simultaneously everywhere in Europe and ruined millions of lives. However, I still support it".
No, I have not seen social democracy failing, I have seen politicians failing to uphold social democracy.
Politicians in every European country's socialdemocrat party have failed social democracy, seems to me like there's something in common, maybe the system fucking sucks? And when a new leftist party rises to fight against that, it gets destroyed institutionally, either through removal of government agency by EU (Syriza in Greece), by refusal to place them in government despite majority (LFI in France), or outright fabrications of false funding from Venezuela by the police apparatus (Podemos in Spain)
Soooo you throw your hat in with russia as a way to resolve this?
Supporting leftist antimilitarism isn't supporting Russia. This is literally what the SPD said in 1914 to support the war budgets for WW1, and this ended in Nazism
Sure if you want to ignore everything else, then you're right. In any case right now if Europe disarms russia would follow in hitlers footsteps and take over Europe
Do you believe Russia would have invaded Ukraine if it was fully backed by NATO?
Well yeah, they were already invaded by russia at that point, that's why we're pissed, because of russias colonial ambitions and the cost of all the lives lost
The USSR
If that's the case you want to make, regardless of not painting the full picture, the russian invasion of Ukraine is the cause of the highest drop of Ukrainians. Also the pretext of "im invading to save you" is entirely bullshit.
And im explaining how the greatest tragedy that's happened to Ukraine (recently) is russias invasion. Maybe there is a reason countries wanted to leave the USSR. It wouldn't be sister nations, it would be occupiers and subservient nation. There is nothing sisterly about russias, or the USSRs invasions of neighbouring countries. If they have to keep their sphere of influence via violence then they are to blame.
The referendums where 90% of the people voted yes to leave? They had peace and a chance to leave, emigration, and the fallout of the collapse of the ussr were the reason so many people left, for greener pastures. The USSR didn't save Europe from fascism, they absolutely contributed to the fall of naziism. But the USSR is fascist, by definition. The catastrophe was caused by russia, im not ignoring anything. Ignoring alll of that, russias current expansion has caused more damage to Ukraine, if you cared so much about Ukraines prosperity, you would be vocal about that part. The USSR has always been colonial, and expansionist. They have to keep their sphere of influence via force, and no matter how you want to paint it, crushing people under boots doesn't make them good or right.
Yes they helped the Spanish resistance, and just like any other ideology it was done to secure what they call communism, not because fascism is bad, but because they wanted to have influence (like every other nation) they didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Other nations turned a blind eye to their population going to fight the fascists too, you can't ignore that point.
And onto ww2 yes russia bore the brunt of population loss due to the nazis, but that's because of russias meat grinder approach. The war was won with British intelligence, American steel and russian blood. The USSR would have collapsed if it weren't for support from the west. There was no benevolence from the ussr in its actions, no was there truly in the west.
The argument of invading to save is just as flimsy as "saving those savages" that happened in North America to the first nations people's. E: or a more accurate example would be the US's invasions of vietnam
The reason people blame China for expanding its sphere of influence is due to the way they are doing it, through exploitative projects in Africa, and re writing maps, ignoring internationally recognized boundaries. Any country that does those things, in that way is bad.
I've read many books.what you said about what happened jn the USSR does not mean it wasn't fascist lol.
Yes, I think it best. I have no ill will towards you. Thank you for the conversation, please take care of yourself.
Everything else sounds right-winger when one is into authoritarian "left".
Sorry if someone being unapologetically socialist is too much for you 😢😢
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don't have a military?
Funding a defense force isn't inherently right-wing militarism; it's a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won't stand a chance against you.
you don't have a military
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won't be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being "unapologetically socialist" whom I responded to.
Anarchists can't even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I'm definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they're too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
Lemmy "leftists": THE USSR HAVING A STANDING ARMY AND USING IT AGAINST NAZIS IS IMPERIALISM
Also Lemmy "leftists": WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN THE GLORIOUS EUROPEAN FREEDOM 🦅🦅🦅🦅 GIVING MONEY TO LITERAL NAZI TANK MANUFACTURER RHEINMETALL
What are you on about?
"We need to throw cash bricks at rheinmetall. Yes, I'm a leftist"
If you're trying to draw a comparison between modern Europe (or even modern Germany) and Nazi Germany, don't. You're only revealing your ignorance. Or you know it's inaccurate and you're doing it anyway in bad faith.
Unless you would have every European nation surrender to russian imperialism, which you seem to be trying to excuse in your previous comment. If that's the case, then go away.
Putin is a fascist. The Soviet Union died over 30 years ago. Supporting modern russia doesn't make you edgy or a leftist, it makes you either an idiot or a troll.
"Not supporting your nation's military apparatus is synonymous with helping the opposite empire"
-Every state propaganda in WW1
You'd have to be extremely ignorant to believe that opposing European defensive capabilities isn't simultaneously helping the russian agenda.
And what of the French in WWI? They didn't get to choose peace, although I'm sure many of them would have preferred it. It wasn't an option for them when their neighbor invaded. How foolish would it be for a French person at that time to say "No, don't fund our military!"
Assuming you're merely ignorant, and not actively spreading propaganda for the kremlin, people like you have the luxury of remaining so ignorant precisely because other folks sign up to maintain the defense forces and the industries that support it. If they went away, suddenly you would be having some serious problems which wouldn't afford you the luxury of pacifism; only by then you wouldn't have a fighting chance in hell to repel the adversary's invasion.
So be grateful someone is out there deterring those conflicts, so that those conflicts don't come home to roost in your back yard.
THE USSR HAVING A STANDING ARMY AND USING IT AGAINST NAZIS IS IMPERIALISM
What? Did russia invade itself? You said they are using it against nazis, but they've just been bombing innocent civilians.
Also, "USSR" saying the quiet part out loud? Lol
After the friendships and understanding pact, yeah I know. I know you're a nazi apologist, but that's not a good thing.
A genuine thank you for this reply, I will need time to read it thoroughly.
E: I need to add, I am not saying the soviets were nazis. Modern russia, under putin is fascist however
bullies use arms, you need to defend yourselves
Ironic comment because almost all anti-EU people in Europe are far-right.
Really? How interesting...
so you want them to have more dogs
Yes, and smaller
27 dogs ranging from chihuahua to labrador vs 1 bear
Most eurolibs would happily allow European imperialism and justify it by arguing if they didn't do it someone else would
Is this "European imperialism" in the room with us right now?
No but its in northern Africa and the Middle East, I have been to Palestine personally. Those starving children don't care that a couple of EU members have strongly worded statements when the weapons flow freely.
I don't care what eurolibs have to say, their actions speak significantly louder
It's in every room in Africa. But they're not white so the media ignores it.
Of course the very statement "in the room with us right now" clearly states the intent, that's somewhere else to people of a different skin color so clearly it doesn't matter. The average eurolib has no sympathy to the starving and oppressed of the global south.
In the past the eurolib argued that they were "civilizing" them with Christianity, that has not changed yet the justifications have (now its "women's rights", "democracy", and "human rights")
Yep, they love to just change the meanings of those words to suit themselves.
I would love for them to have more equality and protections for minorities of all kinds, but just enforcing that from our country or any other country is using political manipulation for a vague gain. If the shoe was on the other foot, they'd scream about election interference.
Well I would also love that too but butchering women wont make them more free, bombing hospitals doesn't increase the sanctity of human life, burning children alive with Incendiary weapons wont teach them to love the west, installing dictators wont make them more democratic, and funding brutal civil wars doesn't make minorities safer.
Eurolibs will insist only Americans did this but the records don't lie, the EU was a participant and Eurolibs supported it
"Look someone had to rape every single brown person and steal their stuff. So why not Europe? They swore they don't do that anymore."
Oh yeah and we know they totally stopped after WW2, yup no neocolonialism or backing foreign military occupations. Just look at how Europe is treating the Palestinian occupation, they sent them unlimited weapons very strongly as an act of condemnation. Look their feelings are hurt and that's close enough to real action.
trvke